Crixalis(SK) can be a carry with latest update?

[Red Field]

If I am correct with my definition of "Carry" which is a hero that becomes more useful late game because of items and attack damage with the help of a passive, then SK can be a carry as well as a support.
His sandstorm is virtually a passive and at lvl 25 talent it has 40 slow and blind. Buying moonshard and basher allows him to stun carries and his Q adds another stun to break an enemies proc besides just going invisible in his storm. Even without using his ult u can trap enemies in his storm and Bash-stun and Q stun them till death. Any strength based item will add to ur attack and HP, like going for HoT helps a lot. Anything that increases his attack rate or slows his enemies attack speed down will help greatly against opponent carries.

He may not be a full out carry, but he's at least semi carry. If Lina can be a carry then so can this guy. The "about" section for this hero lists 0 bars as carry, I think that this needs to change and show at least 1 bar of carry.

What do u guys think?

[Zagryzaec]

yes having even one skill boosting her damage makes a better carry then sk, howeveer lets be honest - lina is no carry either. she is either mid or support.

as for what buy lategame "must be rightclicks to be better in storm" is extremely errouneus.

here is a hint - whenever you initiate with your storm lategame you get sentry, controlled and then carry press his bkb and kill you before you can escape - you skills are utterly irrelevant as he has bkb, and as it is not eternal - so are you and he only need it to deal with you,

so how we solve this impossible task when you cannot fight and cannot use skills? the answer is - you buy hex. not rightclick but hex that will not allow him to use his bkb at all and then fall to your magic damage, because know what? carry naturally have high amount of armor due to high agility and agility items, but lacks what? right - hp and magic resistance, so they are usually vulnerable to magic damage.

so the very idea to go into inferiour physical build vs phys resistant enemy is stupid, you should play from your strong points not try to outgallop the horse on your four.

[【Silver】]

Originally posted by 11:

Well then, try Lina and Sandking in a pub game, in herald-legend. im sure it will be blown away 6 out of 10.

by the time you get to your timing of being a carry on those heroes, the enemy "Carry" would then proceed to beat lina and sandking. So we just wasted time? and get reported?

as i said, theory craft. earn reports.

oh well, i will leave you guys here to fantasize about theory craft and make non carry heroes a carry.

Please do not ruin this game with more wrongful reporting. In most cases, an Agility hero should naturally overcome a Strength hero. The definition of carry here though is still misconstrued, a horrible labeling of damage dealers.

Carry is Dota 2's term for ADC/DD, Lina's passive does indeed greatly heighten her ability to be an on-attack damage dealer. She's one of the Intelligence heroes that excel in that regard because of a natural source in her kit. Sand king does not have such a thing, this does not mean he can't be a strong brawler in the same sense that Lina's able to be a strong damage dealing contender.

Lina excels in offensive abrasiveness, Sand King in defensive ones. In a dueling scenario though, much of this issue becomes anecdotal and down to talents of the individuals. The more you restrict intuitive play, the less this game stays as Dota.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by staticchargeredfield:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

So spectre is relying on her rightclicks to do damage? And silencer is a carry? And hyrocopter a support then?

I said the line is blurry, besides if u actually look at the descriptions Dota 2 itself has put in-game, carry is a character that focuses more on amassing gold and less on abilities, while support are those that can focus less on earning gold and more on using their abilities to gain an advantage for their team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And the second is the exact definition of sandking, but you keep contradicting yourself as he has no effective passive to carry and all you do is talking about at least two of his spelled, spells and talents he would have even if he doesn't build carry items.

He got no right click damages, awful attack rate, no passive which increase damages or survivability, he only has invis...

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by 11:

Originally posted by staticchargeredfield:

if u ask the same to Lina, then she isn't a carry either, yet she is listed as one. Seriously are u here to troll?

Well then, try Lina and Sandking in a pub game, in herald-legend. im sure it will be blown away 6 out of 10.

by the time you get to your timing of being a carry on those heroes, the enemy "Carry" would then proceed to beat lina and sandking. So we just wasted time? and get reported?

as i said, theory craft. earn reports.

oh well, i will leave you guys here to fantasize about theory craft and make non carry heroes a carry.

Well lina mostly need desolator to be efficient, she can be a decent carry because she can have huge attack speed which Sk can't have.

[Ulthwé]

Here is an example of why Lina can be a decent carry, I lost the game indeed but I did decent damages I think, 5422840334.

[Zagryzaec]

Lin's is not a good carry ok? Cm had 250 as and she is not carry, lich had right-click attack slow and he is not carry.

[Red Field]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

yes having even one skill boosting her damage makes a better carry then sk, howeveer lets be honest - lina is no carry either. she is either mid or support.

as for what buy lategame "must be rightclicks to be better in storm" is extremely errouneus.

here is a hint - whenever you initiate with your storm lategame you get sentry, controlled and then carry press his bkb and kill you before you can escape - you skills are utterly irrelevant as he has bkb, and as it is not eternal - so are you and he only need it to deal with you,

so how we solve this impossible task when you cannot fight and cannot use skills? the answer is - you buy hex. not rightclick but hex that will not allow him to use his bkb at all and then fall to your magic damage, because know what? carry naturally have high amount of armor due to high agility and agility items, but lacks what? right - hp and magic resistance, so they are usually vulnerable to magic damage.

so the very idea to go into inferiour physical build vs phys resistant enemy is stupid, you should play from your strong points not try to outgallop the horse on your four.

Yeah, I like this perspective a lot too.. Thanx!

[Red Field]

Originally posted by Miaou:

Originally posted by staticchargeredfield:

I said the line is blurry, besides if u actually look at the descriptions Dota 2 itself has put in-game, carry is a character that focuses more on amassing gold and less on abilities, while support are those that can focus less on earning gold and more on using their abilities to gain an advantage for their team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And the second is the exact definition of sandking, but you keep contradicting yourself as he has no effective passive to carry and all you do is talking about at least two of his spelled, spells and talents he would have even if he doesn't build carry items.

He got no right click damages, awful attack rate, no passive which increase damages or survivability, he only has invis...

...and a slow+blind. So he can be both, as items do make him stronger, especially if u have a mega gold advantage which is what does happen when u play with escapist mega Nukers like SK.

[Red Field]

Originally posted by SGT_pawn:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

yes having even one skill boosting her damage makes a better carry then sk, howeveer lets be honest - lina is no carry either. she is either mid or support.

as for what buy lategame "must be rightclicks to be better in storm" is extremely errouneus.

here is a hint - whenever you initiate with your storm lategame you get sentry, controlled and then carry press his bkb and kill you before you can escape - you skills are utterly irrelevant as he has bkb, and as it is not eternal - so are you and he only need it to deal with you,

so how we solve this impossible task when you cannot fight and cannot use skills? the answer is - you buy hex. not rightclick but hex that will not allow him to use his bkb at all and then fall to your magic damage, because know what? carry naturally have high amount of armor due to high agility and agility items, but lacks what? right - hp and magic resistance, so they are usually vulnerable to magic damage.

so the very idea to go into inferiour physical build vs phys resistant enemy is stupid, you should play from your strong points not try to outgallop the horse on your four.

Dear god.. please just stop, Zargyzaec. All of these points are utter nonsense. You sir, need to get better.

I suggest you view some moving pictures, reading might be.. out of your area of expertise.

Please support Miracle, that's what you need, a miracle.

Kinda agreed. Lina is listed as a carry, no matter how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ she is at that role. She has neither armour, nor HP and her increased attack speed isn't even that much of an increase.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by staticchargeredfield:

Originally posted by Miaou:

And the second is the exact definition of sandking, but you keep contradicting yourself as he has no effective passive to carry and all you do is talking about at least two of his spelled, spells and talents he would have even if he doesn't build carry items.

He got no right click damages, awful attack rate, no passive which increase damages or survivability, he only has invis...

...and a slow+blind. So he can be both, as items do make him stronger, especially if u have a mega gold advantage which is what does happen when u play with escapist mega Nukers like SK.

No he doesn't have a slow-blind, because it's not a passive and it is a late talent, many games end before lvl 25. Items make anyone stronger, that is not the point...

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by staticchargeredfield:

Originally posted by SGT_pawn:

Dear god.. please just stop, Zargyzaec. All of these points are utter nonsense. You sir, need to get better.

I suggest you view some moving pictures, reading might be.. out of your area of expertise.

Please support Miracle, that's what you need, a miracle.

Kinda agreed. Lina is listed as a carry, no matter how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ she is at that role. She has neither armour, nor HP and her increased attack speed isn't even that much of an increase.

You didn't even check the stats of the match I linked with Lina. She can be a decent semi carry and great pusher, even with some small items. Did you really see a lina attacking with 3 charges of passive to say it is not that much? Do you imagine what it would requires for SK to have the same attack speed? And besides this, he is melee when she is range...

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by SGT_pawn:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

yes having even one skill boosting her damage makes a better carry then sk, howeveer lets be honest - lina is no carry either. she is either mid or support.

as for what buy lategame "must be rightclicks to be better in storm" is extremely errouneus.

here is a hint - whenever you initiate with your storm lategame you get sentry, controlled and then carry press his bkb and kill you before you can escape - you skills are utterly irrelevant as he has bkb, and as it is not eternal - so are you and he only need it to deal with you,

so how we solve this impossible task when you cannot fight and cannot use skills? the answer is - you buy hex. not rightclick but hex that will not allow him to use his bkb at all and then fall to your magic damage, because know what? carry naturally have high amount of armor due to high agility and agility items, but lacks what? right - hp and magic resistance, so they are usually vulnerable to magic damage.

so the very idea to go into inferiour physical build vs phys resistant enemy is stupid, you should play from your strong points not try to outgallop the horse on your four.

Dear god.. please just stop, Zargyzaec. All of these points are utter nonsense. You sir, need to get better.

I suggest you view some moving pictures, reading might be.. out of your area of expertise.

Please support Miracle, that's what you need, a miracle.

Care to elaborate your point in the constructive matter or uncapable to?

[41]

So this OP is unranked. What it means is we should not listen to this discussion. Thread closed.

[Rabbit]

Originally posted by 11:

So this OP is unranked. What it means is we should not listen to this discussion. Thread closed.

I don'T follow your logic. Thread may continu if anyone feels like anything interesting about game strategies can be said.

[Zagryzaec]

well nothing intresting in this topic. same old "i wanna be a carry" thread.