Nullifier needs a rework

[bombthezoms]

It should be turned into a proper support item that mutes or hard dispels.
Right now its used to counter a small pool of heros and 1 or 2 items. Downright sad compared to other items that are bought 100x more often in the game. I mean lets look at the facts.
-needs secret shop no safe buy
-4.7k cost
-basic dispel that works on like 10% of hero buffs and only 30% of item buffs
-can be blocked AND reflected
-has travel time AND can be disjointed
-stats are meant for a carry to use this weapon along with shadow blade when they could use many other items that give more benefits and cost less
-recipe calls for high cost items(sacred relic) meaning you get no benefit for going for said item compared to other recipes i.e energy booster -> aether lens/mana boots

+pierces spell immunity (doesnt stop satanic,bkb,blade mail or any invis carries still stomp)
+cant be dispelled
+does remove bottle effects(except for invisibility)

This item is very niche and needs a touch up i think either make it hard dispel so it can actually do its job or make it mute like it used to, but for the love of god change up the recipe and make it more support focused. How about null talisman + soul booster + falcon blade it comes to 4.6K uses items that need more spot light still requires secret shop and buffs some underutilized stats for and side carries like silencer. If you think its still too cheap throw in a recipe cost of X. Side note i think brace, wraith band and null talisman should be worked into more items.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Hex seems better. Unless you are carry.

[Ragnoraok]

We already have plenty of support items, so Valve doesn't need to radically change Nullifier to fit a role that it doesn't satisfy.

With that being said, Nullifier isn't even a good carry item anymore, because the lack of the slow means that enemies can easily escape.

[bombthezoms]

i forgot to mention that the dispel doesnt work on allies so you cant save someone either. let us dispel allies you trust us with force staff why not this?

[Sunw1ch ✿ Zuzu]

It seems balance to me.

[bombthezoms]

Originally posted by Sunwich ✿:

It seems balance to me.

how?

[Zagryzaec]

Nullifier is literally core antisupport item and needs no buffs. It is awkward to build for a reason, because it literally counter all sups save items. Disable eul, force, glimmer, eaon and ghost.

It is only meant as counter item and isn't supposed to have any other benefits as it renders most supports items useless and works continuously while fitting overall carries build, unlike eul.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Nullifier is literally core antisupport item and needs no buffs. It is awkward to build for a reason, because it literally counter all sups save items. Disable eul, force, glimmer, eaon and ghost.

It is only meant as counter item and isn't supposed to have any other benefits as it renders most supports items useless and works continuously while fitting overall carries build, unlike eul.

No carry or damage dealer is building nullifier to stop supports. There are plenty of options that are cheaper (dust or orchid) or have more utility (scythe or silver's edge) that hard counters most support builds. Nullifer is a strong counter against select characters like Enchantress (disables her ultimate) or Windrunner (disables windrun), but besides that is not worth the gold. It is for this reason why noone builds nullifier anymore.

The old nullifier was better, because at least you could use the slow to stop people from advancing or running away.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by will:

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Nullifer is a strong counter against select characters like Enchantress (disables her ultimate) or Windrunner (disables windrun), but besides that is not worth the gold. It is for this reason why noone builds nullifier anymore.

The old nullifier was better, because at least you could use the slow to stop people from advancing or running away.

And Wind Ranger can have "undispellable windrun" . Not sure the nullifier would do anything against her.

Really? Thats dumb. Then Nullifier is useless then.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Nullifier is literally core antisupport item and needs no buffs. It is awkward to build for a reason, because it literally counter all sups save items. Disable eul, force, glimmer, eaon and ghost.

It is only meant as counter item and isn't supposed to have any other benefits as it renders most supports items useless and works continuously while fitting overall carries build, unlike eul.

Mainly that.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Nullifier is literally core antisupport item and needs no buffs. It is awkward to build for a reason, because it literally counter all sups save items. Disable eul, force, glimmer, eaon and ghost.

It is only meant as counter item and isn't supposed to have any other benefits as it renders most supports items useless and works continuously while fitting overall carries build, unlike eul.

No carry or damage dealer is building nullifier to stop supports. There are plenty of options that are cheaper (dust or orchid) or have more utility (scythe or silver's edge) that hard counters most support builds. Nullifer is a strong counter against select characters like Enchantress (disables her ultimate) or Windrunner (disables windrun), but besides that is not worth the gold. It is for this reason why noone builds nullifier anymore.

The old nullifier was better, because at least you could use the slow to stop people from advancing or running away.

Dust will be dispelled easily. Orchid too. What should a faceless void do about an aeon disk?

Nullifier purges but doesn't break, I seriously doubt it can disable ench ult.

People clearly don't see how strong this item is against supports and weak nuker heroes such as skywrath or zeus. It makes many, if not all, escape items useless.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by Ulthwé:

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

No carry or damage dealer is building nullifier to stop supports. There are plenty of options that are cheaper (dust or orchid) or have more utility (scythe or silver's edge) that hard counters most support builds. Nullifer is a strong counter against select characters like Enchantress (disables her ultimate) or Windrunner (disables windrun), but besides that is not worth the gold. It is for this reason why noone builds nullifier anymore.

The old nullifier was better, because at least you could use the slow to stop people from advancing or running away.

Dust will be dispelled easily. Orchid too. What should a faceless void do about an aeon disk?

Nullifier purges but doesn't break, I seriously doubt it can disable ench ult.

People clearly don't see how strong this item is against supports and weak nuker heroes such as skywrath or zeus. It makes many, if not all, escape items useless.

Most supports don't have abilities or build items that dispel themselves, and even then, they should be using those items on teammates.

Faceless shouldn't worry about Aeon at all if he uses his ultimate wisely and catches multiple enemies.

You are overvaluing Nullifier significantly. The only item that is necessary to stop supports is BKB, which flat out invalidates Skywrath, Zeus, and similar characters. In most cases, Blink, coupled with hard cc, is enough to make escape items useless anyways.

[Kenzis Bogorodin]

blablabla no one reads the steam discussions ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

>caring about balance in 2k12+10

ICE FROG LEFT.

GAME IS DEAD.

MOST PLAYERS ARE GPT BOTS.

[attxxxx]

Boa

[boowas]

maybe

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Originally posted by Ulthwé:

Dust will be dispelled easily. Orchid too. What should a faceless void do about an aeon disk?

Nullifier purges but doesn't break, I seriously doubt it can disable ench ult.

People clearly don't see how strong this item is against supports and weak nuker heroes such as skywrath or zeus. It makes many, if not all, escape items useless.

Most supports don't have abilities or build items that dispel themselves, and even then, they should be using those items on teammates.

Faceless shouldn't worry about Aeon at all if he uses his ultimate wisely and catches multiple enemies.

You are overvaluing Nullifier significantly. The only item that is necessary to stop supports is BKB, which flat out invalidates Skywrath, Zeus, and similar characters. In most cases, Blink, coupled with hard cc, is enough to make escape items useless anyways.

You clearly forget how easy it is to escape a carry with eul's scepter, force staff, glimmer, lotus orb or aeon disk, or a combination of these items.

Supports will buy eul's, aeon disk or lotus orb if they constantly get silenced. At least in higher brackets. 2 of these items are for self and not for the team.

I can assure you than if a storm get caught multiple times by a faceless void, he'll buy an aeon disk eventually, because it is the only item that can allow him to survive.

You are undervaluing nullifier significantly. A bkb won't magically makes you go through ghost scepter. Carries don't have hard CC most of the time, and if you are talking abyssal blade it can be countered.

I suggest you take a look at who builds nullifier and what is the resulting winrate. I know there is a bias, since the item is expansive, maybe you already need to be winning to afford it, but maybe it isn't the case in all these games.
https://www.dotabuff.com/items/nullifier