Why do people in Classic ranked play roles but in ranked roles they don't?

[Big Dog]

I played some classic ranked for the first time ever, both teams have 3 cores and 2 supports. In ranked roles my team always seems to get 5 cores. Wild how dota in 2022 is.

[Big Dog]

Can someone explain to me why there is never any supports in ranked roles, just afk junglers or farmers, but in classic there is always 2 supports 3 cores?

What is the logic here? Do people just troll / grief games for fun by searching support roles? Is classic the mode to play if you don't want griefers or trolls?

[Absche]

Maybe classic ranked players have a different attitude. Means they accept that to set up the lineup is a team challenge/responsibility and not a responsibility of the matchmaker.

[Zagryzaec]

Is classic ranked played on account with much higher mmr than yours? Do you compare to pro streamers?

Cause iny expirience classic Is chaos
That's exactly the reason why people asked for role ranked so long, and then asked for role ranked to be available for all, and now most play role ranked for very same reason.

[Kokobe x LAbron x Doncic]

man 2022 got more toxic trolls & smurfs unlike the previous years, because the community is evolving and so does the toxicity is evolving too, theres nothing u can do about toxic ppl bro, especially the devs doesnt care about solo rank after all

[Absche]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Is classic ranked played on account with much higher mmr than yours? Do you compare to pro streamers?

Cause iny expirience classic Is chaos
That's exactly the reason why people asked for role ranked so long, and then asked for role ranked to be available for all, and now most play role ranked for very same reason.

Yes, the comparison is maybe screwed a bit by the fact that higher ranks are classic rank only players. But still classic ranked players in lower ranks are more confident players and trust in their team mates while ranked role players can‘t or don‘t want to coordinate with their team. And in playing ranked role they probably will never learn it. Of course this is a typical solo queue approach because full stacks don‘t care anyway, which touches another actual topic.

[Zagryzaec]

As far as I saw people who play in classic just don't want to be reported for not playing their role.

Role ranked is popular mode for a reason.

[Absche]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

As far as I saw people who play in classic just don't want to be reported for not playing their role.

Role ranked is popular mode for a reason.

It is popular in lower ranks solo queue. That‘s not Dota2 in general. Lower ranks often play turbo and normal all pick as well as single draft. But when in ranked, lower ranks solo gamers prefer ranked roles over classic ranked. It has the strict solo option and is more convenient and less demanding (as I don‘t coordinate with my team give me an opponent team that doesn‘t either).

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

As far as I saw people who play in classic just don't want to be reported for not playing their role.

Role ranked is popular mode for a reason.

Why would you report someone for not playing role in classic when there are no roles set? In ranked roles you should be reporting people who don't play role, not in classic.

[Rabbit 🍌]

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

As far as I saw people who play in classic just don't want to be reported for not playing their role.

Role ranked is popular mode for a reason.

Why would you report someone for not playing role in classic when there are no roles set? In ranked roles you should be reporting people who don't play role, not in classic.

That's the point. They play classic because they don't want to risk being reported in roles.

I've had ranked experience from archon to ancient and I've had contless party queue with people from herald to immortal. I only play ranked roles and I've never felt like people were disrespecting the roles. I mean generaly. So there isn't much to be explained.

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by ♪ Rabbit ♪:

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Why would you report someone for not playing role in classic when there are no roles set? In ranked roles you should be reporting people who don't play role, not in classic.

That's the point. They play classic because they don't want to risk being reported in roles.

I've had ranked experience from archon to ancient and I've had contless party queue with people from herald to immortal. I only play ranked roles and I've never felt like people were disrespecting the roles. I mean generaly. So there isn't much to be explained.

Dude I can post so many match ID's where I get like slark hard support, or the supports just sit mid and afk farm all game.

[Absche]

Classic ranked: for those who want to play their favorite role
Ranked roles: for those who want others to play a fixed role without any discussion and punish it if not

From this basic preposition you can derive a general attitude.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

As far as I saw people who play in classic just don't want to be reported for not playing their role.

Role ranked is popular mode for a reason.

Why would you report someone for not playing role in classic when there are no roles set? In ranked roles you should be reporting people who don't play role, not in classic.

That's why they go classic. Because they don't want to be reported for not playing their role. Because in classic there is no predefined role and therefore they cannot be reported.

Seriously, bro, it's easier for you to read my post twice than for me to type it with one finger twice.

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Originally posted by ♪ Rabbit ♪:

That's the point. They play classic because they don't want to risk being reported in roles.

I've had ranked experience from archon to ancient and I've had contless party queue with people from herald to immortal. I only play ranked roles and I've never felt like people were disrespecting the roles. I mean generaly. So there isn't much to be explained.

Dude I can post so many match ID's where I get like slark hard support, or the supports just sit mid and afk farm all game.

Supports don't farm. If he stuck mid most likely he is just have to protect it and here comes the question - if you are core why aren't YOU go mid and free my people? Do you have an idea how often supports that don't even have pushing skills have to push out several waves of creeps maybe with catapults just because their mid and core farm jungle? Let my people go!

Originally posted by Absche:

Classic ranked: for those who want to play their favorite role
Ranked roles: for those who want others to play a fixed role without any discussion and punish it if not

From this basic preposition you can derive a general attitude.

Role ranked - for those who want normal proper game of dota where everybody doesn't fight every game from the very beginning like in classic who goes mid and who will sup and start ruining from before the creeps

Classic - for entitled self centered guys who wish no responsibility and don't want to play in a team to begin with.

Let's be honest. Massive amount of players don't know how to play and have a carry mentality. They think they will win solo and for that they need items and therefore farm. That's why all of them want play pos1 who gets most farm. But as they cannot play in easy lane with partner they start thinking that they would do better in mud where they play one on one. After which start crying as soon as 4 comes to gank them. Because they can't play there either. Because they don't want to be part of the team. And as classic mode has less apparent team duty they prefer going there. Cause no one can tell them they are pos1/2/3/4/5.

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Why would you report someone for not playing role in classic when there are no roles set? In ranked roles you should be reporting people who don't play role, not in classic.

That's why they go classic. Because they don't want to be reported for not playing their role. Because in classic there is no predefined role and therefore they cannot be reported.

Seriously, bro, it's easier for you to read my post twice than for me to type it with one finger twice.

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Dude I can post so many match ID's where I get like slark hard support, or the supports just sit mid and afk farm all game.

Supports don't farm. If he stuck mid most likely he is just have to protect it and here comes the question - if you are core why aren't YOU go mid and free my people? Do you have an idea how often supports that don't even have pushing skills have to push out several waves of creeps maybe with catapults just because their mid and core farm jungle? Let my people go!

Originally posted by Absche:

Classic ranked: for those who want to play their favorite role
Ranked roles: for those who want others to play a fixed role without any discussion and punish it if not

From this basic preposition you can derive a general attitude.

Role ranked - for those who want normal proper game of dota where everybody doesn't fight every game from the very beginning like in classic who goes mid and who will sup and start ruining from before the creeps

Classic - for entitled self centered guys who wish no responsibility and don't want to play in a team to begin with.

Let's be honest. Massive amount of players don't know how to play and have a carry mentality. They think they will win solo and for that they need items and therefore farm. That's why all of them want play pos1 who gets most farm. But as they cannot play in easy lane with partner they start thinking that they would do better in mud where they play one on one. After which start crying as soon as 4 comes to gank them. Because they can't play there either. Because they don't want to be part of the team. And as classic mode has less apparent team duty they prefer going there. Cause no one can tell them they are pos1/2/3/4/5.

You have no clue what you are saying. These people are the support roles yet they focus on getting gold and items, which is not supporting. They are not "stuck" mid. I want to go mid and farm as core but the supports will just use their spells to last hit the creeps from me.

[Absche]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by Absche:

Classic ranked: for those who want to play their favorite role
Ranked roles: for those who want others to play a fixed role without any discussion and punish it if not

From this basic preposition you can derive a general attitude.

Role ranked - for those who want normal proper game of dota where everybody doesn't fight every game from the very beginning like in classic who goes mid and who will sup and start ruining from before the creeps

Classic - for entitled self centered guys who wish no responsibility and don't want to play in a team to begin with.

Let's be honest. Massive amount of players don't know how to play and have a carry mentality. They think they will win solo and for that they need items and therefore farm. That's why all of them want play pos1 who gets most farm. But as they cannot play in easy lane with partner they start thinking that they would do better in mud where they play one on one. After which start crying as soon as 4 comes to gank them. Because they can't play there either. Because they don't want to be part of the team. And as classic mode has less apparent team duty they prefer going there. Cause no one can tell them they are pos1/2/3/4/5.

I‘m in doubt about your interpretation of the situation because you have to consider that classic ranked is the way to go for high skilled players may it be in solo or as a team.

Ranked roles however has been created for lower ranked players that mainly go solo or in small parties to ease up their gaming. They just hand over an important step in the game to the system and deny any need to discuss and negotiate the lineup with their team mates, because that is demanding. Mostly the game at that level of play is governed by mistrust and also lack of knowledge. Thus, in fact ranked roles is a form of surrender to the unreliable conditions of lower ranked solo queue gaming. They do not even try to convince their players to learn that team building phase skills but capitulate to the lack of will and skills in that peer group.

But then the developers noticed that they cannot ignore the high ranked players that can cope with the challenges of team building quite well and see obsolete restrictions in ranked role gaming. Also they noticed that larger parties and full stacks can also cope with the situation of no role preselection quite well and brought back classic ranked although they split the available player base with this provision.

And now let‘s look for the solo gamers in low ranks that go for classic rank. What do they expect? For sure that they can play the role they want to play. In doing so, they also accept that others play their freely selected role too. Thus, they accept to play in setups out of the range of the Dota2 ideal setup as artificially fixed in ranked roles. But irrespective of this they expect to have a better game than in ranked roles. Why? I think because they have the confidence that they can negotiate a proper setup with their team mates and/or have success in the final setup anyway, even with 4 or 5 cores. They don‘t fear to meet ranked role teams as opponents. As a consequence we have players that switch roles because they want to or at least accept to but not because they have to.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Deadly Queen:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

That's why they go classic. Because they don't want to be reported for not playing their role. Because in classic there is no predefined role and therefore they cannot be reported.

Seriously, bro, it's easier for you to read my post twice than for me to type it with one finger twice.


Supports don't farm. If he stuck mid most likely he is just have to protect it and here comes the question - if you are core why aren't YOU go mid and free my people? Do you have an idea how often supports that don't even have pushing skills have to push out several waves of creeps maybe with catapults just because their mid and core farm jungle? Let my people go!



Role ranked - for those who want normal proper game of dota where everybody doesn't fight every game from the very beginning like in classic who goes mid and who will sup and start ruining from before the creeps

Classic - for entitled self centered guys who wish no responsibility and don't want to play in a team to begin with.

Let's be honest. Massive amount of players don't know how to play and have a carry mentality. They think they will win solo and for that they need items and therefore farm. That's why all of them want play pos1 who gets most farm. But as they cannot play in easy lane with partner they start thinking that they would do better in mud where they play one on one. After which start crying as soon as 4 comes to gank them. Because they can't play there either. Because they don't want to be part of the team. And as classic mode has less apparent team duty they prefer going there. Cause no one can tell them they are pos1/2/3/4/5.

You have no clue what you are saying. These people are the support roles yet they focus on getting gold and items, which is not supporting. They are not "stuck" mid. I want to go mid and farm as core but the supports will just use their spells to last hit the creeps from me.

You said you play my mmr. That doesn't happen on my mmr, unless like an exception. Just go and farm mid then, don't allow creeps to die from your tower. Supports only farm as side stuff. If you look at the map or wait to stuck, or have to defend lane. Otherwise we have other priorities in game. What you saying is carry mentality.

Originally posted by Absche:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Role ranked - for those who want normal proper game of dota where everybody doesn't fight every game from the very beginning like in classic who goes mid and who will sup and start ruining from before the creeps

Classic - for entitled self centered guys who wish no responsibility and don't want to play in a team to begin with.

Let's be honest. Massive amount of players don't know how to play and have a carry mentality. They think they will win solo and for that they need items and therefore farm. That's why all of them want play pos1 who gets most farm. But as they cannot play in easy lane with partner they start thinking that they would do better in mud where they play one on one. After which start crying as soon as 4 comes to gank them. Because they can't play there either. Because they don't want to be part of the team. And as classic mode has less apparent team duty they prefer going there. Cause no one can tell them they are pos1/2/3/4/5.

I‘m in doubt about your interpretation of the situation because you have to consider that classic ranked is the way to go for high skilled players may it be in solo or as a team.

Ranked roles however has been created for lower ranked players that mainly go solo or in small parties to ease up their gaming. They just hand over an important step in the game to the system and deny any need to discuss and negotiate the lineup with their team mates, because that is demanding. Mostly the game at that level of play is governed by mistrust and also lack of knowledge. Thus, in fact ranked roles is a form of surrender to the unreliable conditions of lower ranked solo queue gaming. They do not even try to convince their players to learn that team building phase skills but capitulate to the lack of will and skills in that peer group.

But then the developers noticed that they cannot ignore the high ranked players that can cope with the challenges of team building quite well and see obsolete restrictions in ranked role gaming. Also they noticed that larger parties and full stacks can also cope with the situation of no role preselection quite well and brought back classic ranked although they split the available player base with this provision.

And now let‘s look for the solo gamers in low ranks that go for classic rank. What do they expect? For sure that they can play the role they want to play. In doing so, they also accept that others play their freely selected role too. Thus, they accept to play in setups out of the range of the Dota2 ideal setup as artificially fixed in ranked roles. But irrespective of this they expect to have a better game than in ranked roles. Why? I think because they have the confidence that they can negotiate a proper setup with their team mates and/or have success in the final setup anyway, even with 4 or 5 cores. They don‘t fear to meet ranked role teams as opponents. As a consequence we have players that switch roles because they want to or at least accept to but not because they have to.

High ranked players DO NOT HAVE role ranked, because it's like 1% of all dota players, and they have enough brain to form team consciously.

When people CHOOSE to go classic mode most likely it's a problem players.

Ranked roles is the mode where rolling and agreeing to play happens before match, so you don't have to have double mid and such.

I don't remember when I last time seen double mid since introduction of rr. It's convenient for all.

And yes in my games even if you have predetermined roles you STILL have ALL the options of classical matchmaking. You can swap lanes, you can swap roles and it's happens often (especially pos 3,4,5 because when you choose all roles and expect to get pos5 you can get pos3)

There is no negatives in role in relation to classic. Only positives and smart people go there. Doesn't mean that there is no trolls but those get whitted out quickly.

They go to classic because they confident yes. Overconfident in fact. Just like they sure they can win game by playing jungler, they sure that they can persuade the team that they can. Ironically they can do neither. But they try anyways and fails.

That's exactly why role ranked is better.