can we talk about shadow shaman

[Dungle]

okay so first of all let me address this, this is a nerf suggestion discussion, with that said, feel free to give me reasons why SS is not op, or other nerf suggestions.

Okay so first of all, ether shock, insta win lanes with this 1000 damage ability, with a four second cooldown. Hex, another disable to his arsenal of utter annoyance. Shackle, oooh this ones a doozy, so he sits there and channels essentially banes fiends grip, which deals 300 damage with a 10 second cooldown, and a 5 second duration. and then theres his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wards, his op wards which deal 300000 damage per second and insta kill any towers they come in contact with, and good luck killing them if you're not sniper with a dragon lance, go near them "oh you LIKED half of your health, how bout I take it away real quick" and also OSfrog felt the need to add splash damage to them, because why not. I suggest perhaps shackle to have a 30-40 second cooldown and lsat 4 seconds, and ether shock to have a 10 second cooldown, and maybe there should only be seven wards and remove splash damage?

and also I get his spells cost so much mana but jest get soul ring and arcane boots, and late game blood stone or refresher (twice the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥)

[Dante]

Then play with him, let me see your win rate, then we can talk.

[XI.TING_319028哈哈哈|MARKETPLACE.TF]

Stun him. Group as more than one. Simple.

[The_Technomancer]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

Okay so first of all, ether shock, insta win lanes with this 1000 damage ability

No one's going to take you seriously here with exaggeration like that, especially that early in the thread.

[A Street Sweeper]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

feel free to give me reasons why SS is not op, or other nerf suggestions.

1. He needs all of his spells with lvls to be useful. Consider this compared to supports like Lion or Venge who get a nuke + stun out of one skill that they can max. SS can either get dmg and sacrifice control or vice versa.

2. He is made of paper.

3. His spells are all short range with the exception of aether shock.

4. He's made of poor quality recycled paper.

5. His ultimate has a longish CD, is hard to use in team fights and can feed a hell of a lot of gold to the enemy if misused.

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

I'm really surprised by this thread. Shaman is sort of terrible IMO. He's not really great at anything, and he's really hard to use well in teamfights.

[Dungle]

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

[Dungle]

Originally posted by Price:

Then play with him, let me see your win rate, then we can talk.

I would prefer not to become the scum of the earth

[A Street Sweeper]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

I'm just going to assume you don't actually know what Slark's abilties are after this. Slark just feeds on squishy supports that really on disables.

[Dante]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

You clearly know nothing about Slark, no support in DOTA can disable him, not even Bane. This comment shown your knowledge about DOTA already, so I've done with this post.

[Slav Mcgopnik]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

1.5k hours and doesn't know about dark pact

[Yozh]

You lost me at ----ing wards.

He's easy to kill and doesn't get much stronger. You ward for him, you anticipate. Strong, but not op. He does his thing. He is not an insta win hero.

[cyberpinoy]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

NOPE slark can break shackles. Learn your heros, like was advised play him and see if u can match my crappy win rate with him, which is 58.85% and a KDA of only 1.92. and yuou dont get that kinda damage from his wards without agan. and if your rushing agan your not playing your support role correctly.

Also if you want refresher you MUST have agan and Arcane boots as well, or you wont have enough mana to run 2 sets of wards.

He is squshy, dies fast, and a simple misplacement of wards in the team fights at the wrong time gives the enemy gold. He is a hard play you can either be support, or try and be a semi ganker, but seldom can you do both. If he is building agan and refresher you can bet the enemy team is under warded so farming their carrys should be easy. If hes not building that sh!t WATCH OUT hes coming for your towers and can see everything.

Dont dota buff me I never play him ;) LOL

[D. Igne Natura Renovatur Integra]

G

Originally posted by ☣ cyberpinoy ☣:

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

6. No really.. He dies in like 2 hits. Try playing him against Slark.

Oh hey, slark pounced me, excuse me while I shackle, hex, and ether shock you while my carry buttrapes you

NOPE slark can break shackles. Learn your heros, like was advised play him and see if u can match my crappy win rate with him, which is 58.85% and a KDA of only 1.92. and yuou dont get that kinda damage from his wards without agan. and if your rushing agan your not playing your support role correctly.

Also if you want refresher you MUST have agan and Arcane boots as well, or you wont have enough mana to run 2 sets of wards.

He is squshy, dies fast, and a simple misplacement of wards in the team fights at the wrong time gives the enemy gold. He is a hard play you can either be support, or try and be a semi ganker, but seldom can you do both. If he is building agan and refresher you can bet the enemy team is under warded so farming their carrys should be easy. If hes not building that sh!t WATCH OUT hes coming for your towers and can see everything.

Dont dota buff me I never play him ;) LOL

But Lion and SS have TWO disables So if the enemy sralk does not keep an eye on cooldwons he will become chicken or shackled.

[D. Igne Natura Renovatur Integra]

I am Getting raged of shamns who cannot control their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wards to focus the tower.

[Bombenstimmung]

Originally posted by GPX9.Frog:

and also I get his spells cost so much mana but jest get soul ring and arcane boots, and late game blood stone or refresher (twice the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t)

He's a support after all and if you don't feed the enemy team he won't be able to buy a Blood Stone anyways. All his spells cost a lot of mana and as previously said, he's almost as squishy as Skywrath. Shackle has to be channeled. In early game as an offlaner you may sometimes have problems (e.g. Shackle + Juggernaut). If your team feeds so hard that he can get aghs + refresher it's your team's fault...
Did anybody mention that he's squishy and can be nuked easily? He's slow as well and needs a blink for reliable disables.

[A Street Sweeper]

Originally posted by -DI-FerynaCZ:

But Lion and SS have TWO disables So if the enemy sralk does not keep an eye on cooldwons he will become chicken or shackled.

Whilst this is true, it doesn't tend to matter. I suck at maths, but just on rough approximations.. say Slark has shadowblade and maxed pounce + dark pact. From the initial hit with bonus dmg out of stealth + pounce + dp damage he does 630 (before reductions) damage without counting whatever his auto does on the first hit. At lvl 11 with no stat items SS has about 600 or so health. So he's pretty much dead to the initial combo without even adding in the time he can hit you whilst under dark pact.