Venomancer now suck why change shard ?

[GarlicX]

Latent poison skill is garbage. Almost no one activate their dispel if facing venomancer and basiclly range is short making it useless if enemy active dispell before veno have the chance to cast on them. High cooldown, legacy key is "L" which is across the keyboard.
If they want to make changes .. put legacy key at "G" or "F" instead and gale ward should be at lvl 10 or 15. not Lv20 where you already maxed out the ward. Increase range on cast Latent Poison with veno skill 1.

[Skulltist]

you know you can rebind keys right? But otherwise i agree, venomancer feels useless now

[Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant]

The new ability seems pretty situational, seems better suited for targeting supps or tanks that like spamming dispel items on themselves, or using it on a core that's getting buffs constantly cast on them, like LC. Very strong if you use it on a Greaves carrier, they'll always pop Greaves in a fight and it force dispels them, basically completely negating their own heal.
Gale wards being a talent again, a level 25 one at that, kinda sucks, but it's never been that particularly good to begin with. It just feels like it because it's fun to spam a metric ton of wards. Without the 2.5x health and damage talent wards don't do much in the late game other than act as sources of Poison Sting, and even then they're still on the weak side damage wise.
I think people forget Venomancer lived without the Gale Wards ability for ages and he's still relatively unchanged since then, mostly just numbers moved around. He'll continue to be a thorn in everyone's sides without it coming out so early, or even in every game.

[Skulltist]

Originally posted by Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant:

The new ability seems pretty situational, seems better suited for targeting supps or tanks that like spamming dispel items on themselves, or using it on a core that's getting buffs constantly cast on them, like LC. Very strong if you use it on a Greaves carrier, they'll always pop Greaves in a fight and it force dispels them, basically completely negating their own heal.
Gale wards being a talent again, a level 25 one at that, kinda sucks, but it's never been that particularly good to begin with. It just feels like it because it's fun to spam a metric ton of wards. Without the 2.5x health and damage talent wards don't do much in the late game other than act as sources of Poison Sting, and even then they're still on the weak side damage wise.
I think people forget Venomancer lived without the Gale Wards ability for ages and he's still relatively unchanged since then, mostly just numbers moved around. He'll continue to be a thorn in everyone's sides without it coming out so early, or even in every game.

I played him a couple matches and i barely do anything to anyone anymore, and by the time i get the wards on gale i'm so behind i'm no longer a threat. The wards on gale helped so much with preventing enemies from escaping or chasing, and also helped a ton with enemies spamming illusions. The new shard ability is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ worthless, it deals too little damage and is too situational to matter.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant:

The new ability seems pretty situational, seems better suited for targeting supps or tanks that like spamming dispel items on themselves, or using it on a core that's getting buffs constantly cast on them, like LC. Very strong if you use it on a Greaves carrier, they'll always pop Greaves in a fight and it force dispels them, basically completely negating their own heal.
Gale wards being a talent again, a level 25 one at that, kinda sucks, but it's never been that particularly good to begin with. It just feels like it because it's fun to spam a metric ton of wards. Without the 2.5x health and damage talent wards don't do much in the late game other than act as sources of Poison Sting, and even then they're still on the weak side damage wise.
I think people forget Venomancer lived without the Gale Wards ability for ages and he's still relatively unchanged since then, mostly just numbers moved around. He'll continue to be a thorn in everyone's sides without it coming out so early, or even in every game.

I agree. It definitely seems situational.

It can be used agaisnt heroes who buy dispell but no magic immunty (greaves, lotus orb), and heavey dispeller such as Oracle, Abbadon, Omni, Lc, because gale was useless on them anyway.

Magic immunty remains the big counter though!

[GarlicX]

Unless the other team play dispel hero or don't activate bkb, dispell before cast then it will be good but then almost nobody do this. There is no point even play as venomance when ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ from Valve keep nerfing support heros. Whats the point i better use carry as support hero instead. Dum-bass fcuk valve icefrog ♥♥♥♥.

[God Loves You]

I CAN CONFIRM, RUINED THE HERO = absolute fuxin usless shard now

[Wifestealer]

the poison sting talent doesn't work in demo

[GarlicX]

Originally posted by Foreplayer:

the poison sting talent doesn't work in demo

This talent is useless in match game as well..Might as well delete venomancer altogether.
Stupid icefrog and his stupid update.

[Ponyeater]

Originally posted by TESV:Skyrim Skeleton:

Originally posted by Water Ｖａｐｏｒ Merchant:

The new ability seems pretty situational, seems better suited for targeting supps or tanks that like spamming dispel items on themselves, or using it on a core that's getting buffs constantly cast on them, like LC. Very strong if you use it on a Greaves carrier, they'll always pop Greaves in a fight and it force dispels them, basically completely negating their own heal.
Gale wards being a talent again, a level 25 one at that, kinda sucks, but it's never been that particularly good to begin with. It just feels like it because it's fun to spam a metric ton of wards. Without the 2.5x health and damage talent wards don't do much in the late game other than act as sources of Poison Sting, and even then they're still on the weak side damage wise.
I think people forget Venomancer lived without the Gale Wards ability for ages and he's still relatively unchanged since then, mostly just numbers moved around. He'll continue to be a thorn in everyone's sides without it coming out so early, or even in every game.

I played him a couple matches and i barely do anything to anyone anymore, and by the time i get the wards on gale i'm so behind i'm no longer a threat. The wards on gale helped so much with preventing enemies from escaping or chasing, and also helped a ton with enemies spamming illusions. The new shard ability is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ worthless, it deals too little damage and is too situational to matter.

Agreed.
Totally needless change.
You're better off buying a Dagon than an Aghanim's Shard now.

[PepperMummy]

Agree.

[Zagryzaec]

It's exactly what veno needed.

He had problem with chars dispelling his slow - now isplling his slow is even worse so it stuns. And that's hero who had no stuns initially.

[LeSoviet]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

It's exactly what veno needed.

He had problem with chars dispelling his slow - now isplling his slow is even worse so it stuns. And that's hero who had no stuns initially.

Yea sadly you need lvl20 for that, and that mans 35 or 40 min of the game. for 30 or 40 min of the game players already have bkb, euls and stuff.

I agree old venomancer was way better and had better scaling, i was not even close to be meta

In the other hand chen the actual support meta didnt get any decent nerf

PD: Matchmaking still the same im getting trolled almost every match by 14 years old peruvians so i cant really tell you about ability spikes and timings on other situations

My timings with venomancer at min 15 was: Veil+Vessel+Shard: huge spike here
Now will be veil vessel and lvl 12? 13? first ability have low range i cant even enter to the fight because if i get stun im dead

[Purple Sauce]

The shard was already bad, now it's no different. And for those thinking it was good, high level players did not buy the shard, it was a waste of 1400 gold.

[Purple Sauce]

Originally posted by LeSoviet:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

It's exactly what veno needed.

He had problem with chars dispelling his slow - now isplling his slow is even worse so it stuns. And that's hero who had no stuns initially.

Yea sadly you need lvl20 for that, and that mans 35 or 40 min of the game. for 30 or 40 min of the game players already have bkb, euls and stuff.

I agree old venomancer was way better and had better scaling, i was not even close to be meta

In the other hand chen the actual support meta didnt get any decent nerf

PD: Matchmaking still the same im getting trolled almost every match by 14 years old peruvians so i cant really tell you about ability spikes and timings on other situations

My timings with venomancer at min 15 was: Veil+Vessel+Shard: huge spike here
Now will be veil vessel and lvl 12? 13? first ability have low range i cant even enter to the fight because if i get stun im dead

depends, old veno was good at killing low HP heroes, but when it came to high strength heroes he sucked d*** when it came to killing them. So the change was both good and bad. IMO it should have a minimum base damage that it does each tick and choose either the min or the % HP.

[LeSoviet]

Originally posted by Delimon:

Originally posted by LeSoviet:

Yea sadly you need lvl20 for that, and that mans 35 or 40 min of the game. for 30 or 40 min of the game players already have bkb, euls and stuff.

I agree old venomancer was way better and had better scaling, i was not even close to be meta

In the other hand chen the actual support meta didnt get any decent nerf

PD: Matchmaking still the same im getting trolled almost every match by 14 years old peruvians so i cant really tell you about ability spikes and timings on other situations

My timings with venomancer at min 15 was: Veil+Vessel+Shard: huge spike here
Now will be veil vessel and lvl 12? 13? first ability have low range i cant even enter to the fight because if i get stun im dead

depends, old veno was good at killing low HP heroes, but when it came to high strength heroes he sucked d*** when it came to killing them. So the change was both good and bad. IMO it should have a minimum base damage that it does each tick and choose either the min or the % HP.

Thats exactly why you get aghs at min 30/40 min. The late game its pretty much similar with venomancer since your heavy late game damage comes from your ult, and the control/vision come from your wards. Also the last spike you get its when you get shivas and you combine that with lvl 25 talent -attack speed. Physical carry get a huge debuff (bypass bkb) But again friend the power spike from venom its the mid game. I feel you are pretty much forced to go mid and buy midas to try replicate the old venom at midgame. Where is the problem here? Your first ability range its low, if you actually want hit them at 20min mark you already lost your potential since they already have euls, pipe, manta, bkb, and any resource for that