Supports should lose less MMR if they have played good (pull, stack, deward, kills)

[Ballemanden]

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

[GoKo]

i agreed mvp or honorable mention shuld at least give 15 mmr or 10 mmr so when you lose you lose half mmr other wise i dont see what do you gain from mvp...

[General Eclectic]

Originally posted by GoKo:

i agreed mvp or honorable mention shuld at least give 15 mmr or 10 mmr so when you lose you lose half mmr other wise i dont see what do you gain from mvp...

I think that's actually a good idea, might actually make people try harder as they scramble to get that +15mmr regardless of a win/loss.

[Kagami]

Originally posted by H20 > Gatorage:

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

Then all of the players will focus on individual achievement rather than focus on winning games. Why ? its basic human nature. Individual Greed. They dont just want 30 mmr but also add on mmr so does when they lose. They don't care about the possibility for comeback but at least lose less mmr when they focus on their self achievement (which is at least they kill, stack, pull, deward).

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by H20 > Gatorage:

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

People always try to blame one or the other... If you wanted to blame the other way you could point out supports lose games just as often thinking they should be roaming early when playing as a babysitter pos 5, or going to pull when it isn't necessary / not pulling when it is.

The individual should never be prioritized and specially rewarded in this game over the overall team, and CERTAINLY not based on the MVP system which is AWFUL and often gives mediocre or even worthless heroes MVP / honorable mentions based on really stupid and dubious stats. I remember a game where I was doing awful as tiny and got MVP based partially on the fact that I got... wait for it... 2 tree throw kills.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

would you go the other way and say they should lose more for feeding?

[кто]

Why???? That's so stupid, lose more for dying many times

[Sigmund Void]

Originally posted by That's all.:

Why???? That's so stupid, lose more for dying many times

90% of the time supports dying means carries don't do their job.

it is not a supports job to die rarely; You CAN'T change it at as a support most of the time.


Some carry chasing the tank instead of doing a proper teamfight? You're dead.


Your team wants you to ward/deward but doesn't do anything? You die.


You get stunlocked for 2 seconds? You die.

Your initiator does not initiate and you get caught waiting for the teamfight? You die.


Your Carry doesn't care in laning phase when you get tower dived? You die.

Hell, most of the time you die trying to save your carry.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by H20 > Gatorage:

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

No. The only measure of how good support played is victory. There is no other and its impossible to have one.

Your suggestion is also detrimental to the game

[General Eclectic]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by H20 > Gatorage:

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

No. The only measure of how good support played is victory. There is no other and its impossible to have one.

Your suggestion is also detrimental to the game

Except its not, encouraging people to perform better for add on reward is not detrimental to the game. It would help the game significantly. People already go afk jungle waiting for the game to end, that wouldn't be anything new. People should get benefits for playing support well, its harder to do and they are the most blamed and focused role in the game. In teamfight, you ideally want to take out the supports first. Teamfight didn't go well? Blame my supports. I get pushed out of safelane because I let the enemy pos 3&4 anal-stuff my support over and over? Ah blame my support. Lost game? Blame and report my supports. I die because I'm stupidly farming in an area with no vision? Blame my supports.

[Ballemanden]

i dont want major changes, i only want supports to get rewarded for playing well, and greifers to been punished harder, also, if you have a greifer or feeder on yuor team that get banned, its only fair you get some mmr back right? i mean i someone threw a game cause any of many reasons, why should the other 4 people get punished extra, not only do you have to waste 20-60 min of your life, you also lose 30 mmr.

a good support can have die 10 times and be MVP, baiting, dewarding, to save team mates and so on, but if a support is farming own woods while carry is trying to farm there while other 3 is calling for the woods farming support to join smoke or start dewarding, and he dont listen, he should lose extra MMR, you dont get extra for playing good, but you lose more if you greif or dont play your support role.

I dont have the right answers, but give 5 people a week to brain storm, you should find a new way to give MMR, greifers will lose MMR faster while normal consistant people will climb more easy.

[Ballemanden]

Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

would you go the other way and say they should lose more for feeding?

i dont care if its reward for hitting timings and playing role, or better faster punish for not playing your role, all i know is the que system and ranking system needs some love, let greifers play with greifers, feeders who die more than 5 times on lane lose mmr faster or mayby just fix the MMR system so smurfs might find it funny playing their own level.

The behave system is a joke, it reset to quick and you have no choice in who you get on team, you can have a perfect behave score and still get in a game with "mixed behave score" i should be able to wait longer in que to avoid all the toxic people.

[Ballemanden]

Originally posted by RadCon One:

Originally posted by H20 > Gatorage:

Because, many times, your cores are throwing, going in alone vs 3, playing alone and solo farm og just dieing stupid places, when your cores throw hard, your are powerless as pos 4-5, therefor, you should lose less MMR, which also might get more people playing those roles at low level.

People always try to blame one or the other... If you wanted to blame the other way you could point out supports lose games just as often thinking they should be roaming early when playing as a babysitter pos 5, or going to pull when it isn't necessary / not pulling when it is.

The individual should never be prioritized and specially rewarded in this game over the overall team, and CERTAINLY not based on the MVP system which is AWFUL and often gives mediocre or even worthless heroes MVP / honorable mentions based on really stupid and dubious stats. I remember a game where I was doing awful as tiny and got MVP based partially on the fact that I got... wait for it... 2 tree throw kills.

The MVP system would need chance with the update, i want the rewards to reward teamplay, or punish those who dont play with team harder or faster. we can both agreed that a support who have not stacked, pulled or deward should be punished right? I play support 80% of the time myself, when i play core, i get a random support dude who has played his hero 4 times and dont know who to pull in offlane, im 3000 mmr, thats a joke, its people who have 3000 games, they dont want to learn and dont get punished for it, but are stuck in rank cause they play okay core but ♥♥♥♥ support, which means they are creating a loop where lose and win streaks comes often which makes ranked feel "forced" from valves side. It just needs change.

So i would even say that you should not be able to play ranked with a hero you havent played 10 times, ranked should be hardcore tryhard, normal is for prac.

[Ballemanden]

Originally posted by W.:

Originally posted by Kagami:

Then all of the players will focus on individual achievement rather than focus on winning games. Why ? its basic human nature. Individual Greed. They dont just want 30 mmr but also add on mmr so does when they lose. They don't care about the possibility for comeback but at least lose less mmr when they focus on their self achievement (which is at least they kill, stack, pull, deward).

As a support I focus on not killing but help my core to kill, but they focus on losing.

We cant change cores who chase kills too long or people not knowing who to kill in team fights, the is part of the games learning curve, but cores who feeds hard or just dont play with team should be punished harder. Its not fair that all get same MMR after games, i have gotten mvp for losing team 6 times in a row, with good stats from overwolf and dotabuff, and still, i lose the same mmr as my team mate who gave up after going 0-3 5 min in, i mean, thats just not fair..

[Kagami]

Originally posted by W.:

Originally posted by Kagami:

Then all of the players will focus on individual achievement rather than focus on winning games. Why ? its basic human nature. Individual Greed. They dont just want 30 mmr but also add on mmr so does when they lose. They don't care about the possibility for comeback but at least lose less mmr when they focus on their self achievement (which is at least they kill, stack, pull, deward).

As a support I focus on not killing but help my core to kill, but they focus on losing.

The problem with this thread is not about feeding or griefing kills. The problem is players way too focus only on numbers call mmr. Just so you know in the time when dota2 launch we don't have ranked mode for years. You can check it yourself, back then people just play for fun.

That's what missing from this game today. Its not about 4 people lose mmr because 1 player griefing. Its about mmr itself. People here forget how to just play for the fun of the game.

[Ballemanden]

Originally posted by Kagami:

Originally posted by W.:

As a support I focus on not killing but help my core to kill, but they focus on losing.

The problem with this thread is not about feeding or griefing kills. The problem is players way too focus only on numbers call mmr. Just so you know in the time when dota2 launch we don't have ranked mode for years. You can check it yourself, back then people just play for fun.

That's what missing from this game today. Its not about 4 people lose mmr because 1 player griefing. Its about mmr itself. People here forget how to just play for the fun of the game.

Dont agree.. I started playing dota two years ago, i have played dota allstar in wc3 for 3 years and HoN for 4 years. I played 10-20 dota 2 match when game came out and found i borring compare to HoN, i had no way to play with people on my own skill level, now i came back, i start in 3500 mmr which compare to my 7000 mmr days in HoN is a joke, people dont understand thier roles in ranked, therefor they should play normal games to learn, you dont learn in ranked, you compete, you learn and chill in normal games, AND HERE IS THE REASON, when all know their roles, and their hero which they have played at least 50 times, Dota 2 is the best game out there, and then the game is really fun, where when you lose, you say, "okay that was still a good game, everybody gave it their all" thats fun dota, the current MM system dont reward or make rules hard ennough for Ranked, you should have played a hero 10 times before you can pick i ranked, which mean people should play more normal games and only play ranked when the feel fresh and ready to compete.