Problems I have with Turbo

[Tomoko]

Hello everyone,

As you may know, Dota 2 has a gamemode called, "Turbo".

Turbo is a casual gamemode, far removed from the normal game in that it plays nothing like the standard game, has completely different rules, and yet still has the same character balance. This allows players to play quicker games when unable to commit to a full-length game, while also letting newer players to learn heroes, as they remain unchanged.

This as a design theory makes a lot of sense. A quick gamemode allows players like myself, who don't want to commit to over 30 minutes of gameplay in a genre where every other competitor has games that run under 30 minutes, to play at my own pace. I love fast games, ending early, etc etc, but that's not possible in normal All Pick non-ranked gamemodes. As a person who isn't invested in Dota 2 Ranked play, who won't play at a high level, and who won't be able to "End early", my only options left are some of the other gamemodes that I don't care about, arcade gamemodes that are riddled with bugs, or Turbo.

So Turbo it is.


My problems with Turbo have plagued me to a degree that causes total frustration, tilt, and horrible flame that, honestly, shouldn't be acceptable in an online community. The major problem is the character balance in Turbo.

As I said before, it's not inherent a BAD design philosophy. It just doesn't seem to work out properly in Dota's case. Juggernaut a strong early character, who can scale decently into the late game? Rush four moonshards on him and demolish teams. Trouble sustaining mana in lane as Ogre? Cart mangos to yourself constantly for permanent up-time on your abilities. Invoker desperately in need of a nerf/removal because of how blatantly overpowered he is fundamentally? He's even stronger in Turbo.

This causes Dota 2's Turbo gamemode to essentially boil down into three categories:
1. You/your team picked an overpowered (for Turbo) character. You auto-win. (Or you throw randomly and just lose lol)
2. The enemy team picked an overpowered character. You auto-lose. (Or they randomly throw)
3. For some reason, no one picked a blatantly overpowered character/most of them were banned anyway, so the game is fair and balanced, and feels fun to play.

Only one third of the options are fun for me to play, truly. The first one is a vapid feeling of success and doesn't reward me nearly enough as a true win or a comeback does. The second option makes me intentionally feed, which is unhealthy for the game. But let me talk about THAT in more detail, because it's important to the problem:

I don't get punished for feeding. I literally just don't. Enemy picks an overpowered hero so I auto lose? Well, I have three options:
1. Abandon. Even on a first-offence, this is a 30-minute cooldown and a stain on your behaviour score. This is a VERY harsh punishment.
2. Play the game out, have little-to-no fun in a guaranteed loss, get flamed, then move on to the next game to roll the dice.
3. Intentionally feed. Even if you get reported by every single player in the lobby, if you only do this once a week you will NEVER get punished for it. EVER. And a large majority of the time, you just don't get reported for it.

Unlike the other people on this forum that b*tch and moan about how "unfair" the behaviour score is, I'm here to spit truth and facts. It doesn't go far enough in punishing players. I am a compulsive feeder, intentionally feeding MULTIPLE times a week, and I have a 9.7k behaviour score at the moment. On the previous week, I can count on my hand several times where I was either extremely hostile in my flame, or intentionally made the game more difficult for my teammates, and only had THREE gameplay reports at the end.

Turbo allows this. Turbo spoils the game's core ideals by not properly creating a fast-paced environment for players like myself, creates situations that bring the worst out of players like me, and then DOESN'T punish them when they make the game even worse for everyone else. Not only am I sick and tired of getting away scott-free with this behaviour, but I'm sick and tired of being pushed towards doing it by the game itself.

[Zagryzaec]

Turbo is a fun unbalanced mode.

[500KG]

As a frequent turbo player I agree. The games all play out the same:
1. Ban AM and PA.
2. If you have not banned AM or PA, prepare to get stomped by AM or PA.
3. Learn to ban Am and PA.

[Grimmz]

Originally posted by 500KG:

As a frequent turbo player I agree. The games all play out the same:
1. Ban AM and PA.
2. If you have not banned AM or PA, prepare to get stomped by AM or PA.
3. Learn to ban Am and PA.

just won a game against PA and AM. my team was 4 supports and a sniper lmao

[500KG]

Originally posted by ⛧Grimmz⛧:

Originally posted by 500KG:

As a frequent turbo player I agree. The games all play out the same:
1. Ban AM and PA.
2. If you have not banned AM or PA, prepare to get stomped by AM or PA.
3. Learn to ban Am and PA.

just won a game against PA and AM. my team was 4 supports and a sniper lmao

Lol, they can be beaten, but a stomp is more likely. I just lost a game as I picked Zeus mid, the other 4 morons with me picked a roaming Mirana, roaming pudge, enigma jungle and a hard carry veno. No offlane, no carry and they were upset that I called gg at 0 mins.

[Tomoko]

Originally posted by 500KG:

Originally posted by ⛧Grimmz⛧:

just won a game against PA and AM. my team was 4 supports and a sniper lmao

Lol, they can be beaten, but a stomp is more likely. I just lost a game as I picked Zeus mid, the other 4 morons with me picked a roaming Mirana, roaming pudge, enigma jungle and a hard carry veno. No offlane, no carry and they were upset that I called gg at 0 mins.

It's very likely to get poorly thought out team comps, and most wins against PA or AM are either because it's literally a 1v9 for the poor AM/PA, or they're new and just learning.

I lose plenty of games on AM/PA, but I rarely play AM so I'm not so great at them, and most losses on PA are from inting teammates, or because of my general lack of experience compared to my opponents.

[♠♥♣♦]

Nowadays, people play turbo game serious like a rank game.

[[Виртуа] Rubick'sCube]

Originally posted by 500KG:

As a frequent turbo player I agree. The games all play out the same:
1. Ban AM and PA.
2. If you have not banned AM or PA, prepare to get stomped by AM or PA.
3. Learn to ban Am and PA.

Now its just ban WK or Ogre Magi in addition to those 2 lol

[Absche]

They could redefine turbo as an official custom mode, rename it to „Escalade of the Ancients“ and create an independent more balanced meta for this new custom game.

[Tomoko]

Originally posted by Виртуа FeederBerry:

Originally posted by 500KG:

As a frequent turbo player I agree. The games all play out the same:
1. Ban AM and PA.
2. If you have not banned AM or PA, prepare to get stomped by AM or PA.
3. Learn to ban Am and PA.

Now its just ban WK or Ogre Magi in addition to those 2 lol

Yeah I've been perma-ing ogre for a while now, always had problems with him and Invoker. Something about "Just build bkb lol" doesn't sound like a fun counter to me.

[Zagryzaec]

Buy a lotus for ogre, blademail for invoker?

[500KG]

Originally posted by dZZ:

A game mode specifically & blatantly designed to not be serious is being taken seriously by people...

There are just so many stupid people alive, I don't even-...

Ironically, there's nothing to say to a comment this dumb. When you think everybody else is the problem, maybe you should reflect inward a little more.

Originally posted by Виртуа FeederBerry:

Now its just ban WK or Ogre Magi in addition to those 2 lol

It's weird that PL isn't banned more come to think of it. I'm unsure what they did to WK, but it's a very easy win now, i've not played a lot of Ogre so I can't compare notes but Luna agha with a refresh at 12 minute is hella fun.

[Fistraiser]

Turbo is a casual mode.Its made for people who dont have time to learn how to play properly or learn how to lane etc.
It would be too much work for devs to code all the heros differently to accomodate turbo while maintaining balance in normal games too.
The faster xp and gold is designed so people who dont have to play regularly games can get to experience the heros late game moreso than early game.
Ultimatly its not a hero issue.it's a player issue.people deliberatly spamming late game heros there to win matches.
In the future though they are removing the ability to farm turbo to boost behaviour score so this should alleviate some of the problem about people tryharding with late game carries to farm commends.

[Tomoko]

Originally posted by 500KG:

Originally posted by dZZ:

A game mode specifically & blatantly designed to not be serious is being taken seriously by people...

There are just so many stupid people alive, I don't even-...

Ironically, there's nothing to say to a comment this dumb. When you think everybody else is the problem, maybe you should reflect inward a little more.

Originally posted by Виртуа FeederBerry:

Now its just ban WK or Ogre Magi in addition to those 2 lol

It's weird that PL isn't banned more come to think of it. I'm unsure what they did to WK, but it's a very easy win now, i've not played a lot of Ogre so I can't compare notes but Luna agha with a refresh at 12 minute is hella fun.

Yeah I'm ignoring him.

But as for PL - Maybe it's because the relevant counter (Earthshaker) is also pretty strong? Thanks to how insanely short laning phase is, earthshaker can just go mid, farm a blink, and roam before PL even have any items and can shut him down. PA and AM are a little trickier than just doing that, though, which may explain their relevance. Likewise with WK; Good farmer, difficult to inherently counter with a single pick, strong late game in Turbo.

[76561198417712902]

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

What is 'a brain'? Since you're missing one.

Let us all come together as good Dota community citizens to give this thing attention.

Anyone?

[500KG]

Originally posted by dZZ:

Why would I consider myself a part of a problem when I'm not even complaining in the first place? You're one of the mass idiots out there complaining how something is not going your way, so why should we be the ones who should adjust to your standards?

Lmao, listening to you ranting nonsense is hilarious and thank you for proving my point.