Is buying scepter as first item still viable?

[niza,udin]

My friend got report when he play sniper and buy scepter or rush scepter as his first item. Should we all avoid buy scepter to be the first item?

[Ulthwé]

I guess it depends on which heroes, but basically, on almost anyone, Aghs first item is the best way to be useless in most of early teamfights and to feed if you get stunned and silence. If you are pos 5, it delay your core sup items such as glimmer and force staff. As a pos 4, it delays important items such as spirit vessel or lotus orb which can contribute to win a teamfight. As a pos 3, aghs first item will delay all your tanking or initiating items, blink, pipe, vanguard, blade mail. You could rush aghs on some pos 2, thinking about zeus, but he is a nuker, not a carry like type of mid. Pos 1 needs many other items before aghs becomes truly good. So in the end, first aghs is almost always bad and is situationnal.

[niza,udin]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

I guess it depends on which heroes, but basically, on almost anyone, Aghs first item is the best way to be useless in most of early teamfights and to feed if you get stunned and silence. If you are pos 5, it delay your core sup items such as glimmer and force staff. As a pos 4, it delays important items such as spirit vessel or lotus orb which can contribute to win a teamfight. As a pos 3, aghs first item will delay all your tanking or initiating items, blink, pipe, vanguard, blade mail. You could rush aghs on some pos 2, thinking about zeus, but he is a nuker, not a carry like type of mid. Pos 1 needs many other items before aghs becomes truly good. So in the end, first aghs is almost always bad and is situationnal.

Thanks. I saw jugg rush scepter and it is really bad

[【SŌLĪTĀRĪO】giordota.com]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

I guess it depends on which heroes, but basically, on almost anyone, Aghs first item is the best way to be useless in most of early teamfights and to feed if you get stunned and silence. If you are pos 5, it delay your core sup items such as glimmer and force staff. As a pos 4, it delays important items such as spirit vessel or lotus orb which can contribute to win a teamfight. As a pos 3, aghs first item will delay all your tanking or initiating items, blink, pipe, vanguard, blade mail. You could rush aghs on some pos 2, thinking about zeus, but he is a nuker, not a carry like type of mid. Pos 1 needs many other items before aghs becomes truly good. So in the end, first aghs is almost always bad and is situationnal.

[【SŌLĪTĀRĪO】giordota.com]

Xd

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Bawang_Free:

Originally posted by Hyōga:

I guess it depends on which heroes, but basically, on almost anyone, Aghs first item is the best way to be useless in most of early teamfights and to feed if you get stunned and silence. If you are pos 5, it delay your core sup items such as glimmer and force staff. As a pos 4, it delays important items such as spirit vessel or lotus orb which can contribute to win a teamfight. As a pos 3, aghs first item will delay all your tanking or initiating items, blink, pipe, vanguard, blade mail. You could rush aghs on some pos 2, thinking about zeus, but he is a nuker, not a carry like type of mid. Pos 1 needs many other items before aghs becomes truly good. So in the end, first aghs is almost always bad and is situationnal.

Thanks. I saw jugg rush scepter and it is really bad

It is really bad indeed because this additionnal ability is wasted without attack speed. It requires at least a mask of madness before and even then it is a bit light.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Stand Proud:

why would you do that

Because it works sometimes, but people shouldn't be mistaken and it works only in rare occasions. In this game, I mainly did it because it was single draft and we were lacking sups.

https://www.opendota.com/matches/5730664160

[TheVampire100]

Some heroes have better Aghs than others. Some heroes don't even need Aghs to function.
I cannot think of an example where you would rush Aghs as first item even if you have super good farm. Aghanims Scepter has on most hero a very narrow use and does not amplify the aspects of the hero that he excels it.
Good example is Sven. His scepter is considered verypowerful because it works as stun + blink on enemy heroes on a super low cooldown.
However, you generally buy something to boost his attack speed and attack damage first so he can actually can kill people after he jumped on them.

The lower your MMR is however the more you see people buying aghs first because they believe the items properties make up the huge costs and lack of other items.
That's especially common on supports like Lion or WD who buy Aghs before they get Blink or Glimmer Cape and then are surprised if they don't get that many kills with it like they estimated.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Isnt that something either a mid AA or magic luna would do. And clock or es. Or a buffing lycan or a mid brood to accelerate farm. Also support weaver. Doesn't invoker usually buy it early. Maybe lich shaman or warlock or Zues but as second item I guess. Those are the ones I can think. It might depend on of someone else is buying thier normal first item.

Do you mean big item? Or do you consider 2k gold item same as 4-5k gold item as first item?

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

My typical policy on building as a Support main is 1-3 stat items for laning (Bracer, Soul Ring, Wand, etc.), then boots, then 1-3 'mid-cost' items (such as Aether, Glimmer, Veil), and THEN big-ticket items (Agh's, Scythe, Lotus). If I find myself needing to build Crimson / Pipe due to greedy teammates not getting any tank items, I'd usually get that earlier despite its cost.

[GIGACHAD 💪]

Originally posted by Bawang_Free:

My friend got report when he play sniper and buy scepter or rush scepter as his first item. Should we all avoid buy scepter to be the first item?

I had a teammate sniper who bought scepter first item. Whole team was disappointed but we played against ark and it worked out great during late game. If he is this sniper, then I commended him but I guess others reported him. I was enigma by the way