I got a question about mirana

[Schulti mit Sahne]

I'm guardian, and it's like whenever I see a Pos 5(yes thats a thing down here) Pos 4 or Pos 3 Mirana, That in most cases my team looses the game. Simply because Mirana lacks any substantial impact in teamfights, except her arrow(which requires a certain amount of skill and some luck depending on the distance) and nukes. I get it she is good for initiation with invis, but that can be easily countered by Dust and sentries or Gem or even Necronomicon. It just feels like this Hero is supposed to be a rightclicker, but in the end doesn't get anything properly done due to an Ultimate that can be countered by a 80 & 75 Gold item, no real attackmodifier or Tank passive. Just a stupid escape.

So my assumption would be Mirana is probably good in the higher MMR where teams are actually properly cooperating and actively utilizing Mirana ultimate for ganks etc, Which just isn't the case in the guardian bracket.

[IvAr [Gipsy]]

Mirana's abilities are not broken, they may be unreliable, but the same could be said for windranger. I think her abilities make her a very good support, she can ensure range creep in the line phase which is very important, she has good range to harass, she can clean waves of creeps in the line she is also good at damaging heroes of illusions when he has aghs, he can farm enemy jungle with comfort, his ulty can be very good not only escape but gank and that is more difficult to counter in low mmr. Arrow needs patience, and it is preferable to connect it with another stun or use it on narrow or predictable paths.
How carry or utility is another matter but it would be too long to write and read. Sorry for my English.

[Schulti mit Sahne]

Originally posted by Gipsy Danger:

Mirana's abilities are not broken, they may be unreliable, but the same could be said for windranger. I think her abilities make her a very good support, she can ensure range creep in the line phase which is very important, she has good range to harass, she can clean waves of creeps in the line she is also good at damaging heroes of illusions when he has aghs, he can farm enemy jungle with comfort, his ulty can be very good not only escape but gank and that is more difficult to counter in low mmr. Arrow needs patience, and it is preferable to connect it with another stun or use it on narrow or predictable paths.
How carry or utility is another matter but it would be too long to write and read. Sorry for my English.

Hmm alright the ganking is a good point, but thats my point, Mirana is maybe Usefull in the midgame, but in the lategame she really falls off, even as Position 3. She can't really tank, which often leads then to The enemy team focusing all on the Pos 1 or 2 if there is no proper crowd control, while She can't contribute to the fight at all, as I said her Ulti gets easily countered by Dust.

[Ulthwé]

If you stun someone but no one is here to kill him it is going to waste indeed.

Mirana works as a permanent ganker in my opinion. Kill with arrow and jump, harass early on offlane. Later on, initiate with arrow or save teammates with it. Ult and smoke gank, you aren't visible to dentures and wards if you have both, until you meet enemy.

I play her pos 4. One could imagine her pos 3, but yeah, she packs tanking ability. She could be played with diffusal and desolator, it was quite good earlier, but it became less efficient with time. She can be built as antic nuker, with aghs and ethereal blade. I play her full support when I'm pos 4 with urn, basilius for Vladimir or veil later, tranquil, force staff, euls, lotus orb.

In teamfights, she needs to initiate, she can bait because she has jump so she can afford to go into the core of the team fight! But you are right she can be awful, most Mirana build have an awful winrate on dota buff

[浩家郡、世界]

别他妈洗了，白虎就是垃圾英雄

[P4NG]

I play her at Pos4.Its true arrow takes time to master, but once you do learn especially movement prediction and that it actually has travel time and shooting it from where the enemy don't see it coming it can be a very useful spell in ganks.Also as a scouting mechanism.Her ulti is a good way to setup team fights and also as an escape tool.Overall I think pos3-4 is where the hero can be used effectively moving around the map or holding down a lane using starfall.

[Zagryzaec]

Yes she is very high skill unreliable pos4. In lower levels it may equal to loses.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Yes she is very high skill unreliable pos4. In lower levels it may equal to loses.

It remains arguable, a better mirana player will shoot better arrows, but better opponents will dodge them more easily. A worse mirana will shoot worst arrow, but worst enemy might even run into arrows anyway.

[Taweret]

miriana without items sucks that why. if you dont snowball early game is simply not worth it.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Oblivion comes:

miriana without items sucks that why. if you dont snowball early game is simply not worth it.

Mirana without items has leap which is a good replacement of force staff, although having both is better. She keeps arrow which is a powerfull stun, she keeps ulti, because her ulti doesn't scale with any item anyway. She only needs some health regen, some mana regen and that's all.

[Taweret]

yes leap that is ability similar to wind ranger, wind run, helping you to save your own ass not teammates. and her ult is countered by 90 gold items sentry wards like wr blademail and her arrow is unreliable. meanwhile lion without items, aoe stun, free hex, powerful nuke. same with shadowdemon and any other useful support.
also supports outside of obviously helpin are supposed to deal some damage in late game, lion, sd, ww, and others do it greatly, miriana? not so.

miriana vs lion comparsion,

lion free hex - 5575 g item (basic ability)
miriana free smoke - 50 g item, lmao (ult)

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Oblivion comes:

yes leap that is ability similar to wind ranger, wind run, helping you to save your own ass not teammates. and her ult is countered by 90 gold items sentry wards like wr blademail and her arrow is unreliable. meanwhile lion without items, aoe stun, free hex, powerful nuke. same with shadowdemon and any other useful support.

Leap is not similar to windrun. Leap doesn't give you evasion, windrun is not an instant push forward, winrdrun has charges only with aghs.

Sentries cost 75 gold, not 90, and they can't sentry the whole map. They will dust if an idiot is showing you used ulti. They will dust if you use it to run away. They won't dust if you use it to initiate, because otherwise they would only dust all the time because they would be afraid that you are here.

Blade mail is not a 90 gold item, and it counter wr only if she is dumd enough to focus a tank.

Her arrow is unreliable indeed, but so is nyx stun or many other skills. Lion without items can't survive if he get caught, while mirana can jump away. You see only lion's advantages. You can't compare shadow demon and lion. SD is heavy counter to illusions and tanky heroes when Lion is a hard disabler with a nuke and can mainly kill weak target.

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/lion
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/mirana
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/shadow-demon

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Oblivion comes:

yes leap that is ability similar to wind ranger, wind run, helping you to save your own ass not teammates. and her ult is countered by 90 gold items sentry wards like wr blademail and her arrow is unreliable. meanwhile lion without items, aoe stun, free hex, powerful nuke. same with shadowdemon and any other useful support.
also supports outside of obviously helpin are supposed to deal some damage in late game, lion, sd, ww, and others do it greatly, miriana? not so.

miriana vs lion comparsion,

lion free hex - 5575 g item (basic ability)
miriana free smoke - 50 g item, lmao (ult)

Then tell me why Mirana has 51,83% winrate and lion 48,75%.

[Taweret]

escape is not as good as people think, because it makes you feel safe and cause you to do a missplays, while heroes without escape are naturally played more carefully. miriana and wr players are adrenaline dazed fools they just have fun that why they pick these heroes they dont care if they win or lose, people pick lion if they want to be actually relevant and reliable and miriana/wr when they want to have fun. lion is initiator with dagger, miriana and wr initiations are unreliable.

[Taweret]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

Originally posted by Oblivion comes:

yes leap that is ability similar to wind ranger, wind run, helping you to save your own ass not teammates. and her ult is countered by 90 gold items sentry wards like wr blademail and her arrow is unreliable. meanwhile lion without items, aoe stun, free hex, powerful nuke. same with shadowdemon and any other useful support.
also supports outside of obviously helpin are supposed to deal some damage in late game, lion, sd, ww, and others do it greatly, miriana? not so.

miriana vs lion comparsion,

lion free hex - 5575 g item (basic ability)
miriana free smoke - 50 g item, lmao (ult)

Then tell me why Mirana has 51,83% winrate and lion 48,75%.

because miriana is not only played as support but also as mid and carry? lmao

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Oblivion comes:

escape is not as good as people think, because it makes you feel safe and cause you to do a missplays, while heroes without escape are naturally played more carefully. miriana and wr players are adrenaline dazed fools they just have fun that why they pick these heroes they dont care if they win or lose, people pick lion if they want to be actually relevant and reliable and miriana/wr when they want to have fun. lion is initiator with dagger, miriana and wr initiations are unreliable.

It doesn't answer to my previous question? Why such a low winrate if Lion is so good compared to Mirana? But I'll stop derailing, you don't know what you are talking about. While Mirana has an unreliable stun half of the time, it doesn't make her useless as you think it does.