So can we talk about chen?

[Night]

This hero is garbage. Both in terms of him just being zero fun to play and he also has zero impact.

It now takes like 10 minutes for him to get anything besides a trash creep. If you get lucky you might find a net or stomp creep but there are supports that just come with roots and stuns already and don't have to pilfer camps from their carries to get them.

Creep damage is pitiful and they are borderline useless in teamfight because creeps move very slow.

Even if you micro your three centaurs perfectly and the enemy just watches those slow mf's walk up to them to stomp it's still not nearly as impactful as pretty much any other support in the game.

This is evident by the fact that even within the very limited pool of chen players left almost nobody even bothers attempting to micro creeps during teamfight anymore. The bang for your effort is essentially zero. You might get a couple good micro creep kills in lane if you're lucky with which ones you get and aren't tilted from your safe lane carry flaming you for pruning their camps.


It seems even icefrog realizes this because Chen's W gives bonus damage and speed to creeps... which was supposed to incentivise chen to not prune all of the camps for what little impact they might have and instead convert creeps. All this means though is that instead of being a micro lord chen just has a stack of catapults that he ports from lane to lane to push towers.



His E is possibly the most boring ability in dota. An aura buff that is barely noticeable that can also tp allies to you. Tping allies is really only useful during lane for specifically coordinated ganks. Even then it's not very impactful, it just saves the rotating person a bit of time so they don't have to wait for their tp to get off cooldown to return to their lane.

His Q is just a slow that applies an attacker speed buff.... not very impactful.

Finally we get to his ult. On paper it sounds OK but it doesn't scale at all. If you're not winning within 20 minutes you're basically useless as 900 hp can be bursted by any number of heroes. Hell, one lion ult can deal that damage. As you scale into the late game 900 hp can become almost nothing.

And the cooldown for it is just crazy. If I want heals I'd go with IO or omni knight instead of chen.


In short chen is high effort for basically zero payoff. Every support that is 10x easier to play does what chen does but way better.



If chen is goign to be mediocre across the board then his ult had better be life changing. Why do we have ults like echo slam and black hole that can completely turn fights while chen has a 900 heal (and that is IF he get's to level 25 which... i mean... good luck) that is onlike a 2 minute cooldown.


High skill requirement heroes should be sufficiently rewarded with at least decent capabilities. Chen has to get lucky and work hard to do things other heroes can do for free.

[Pandar_archer]

you dont rith man, chen always was very strong hero, just only need -- its you teamattes must pick and play with you, on fust push strat, team with chan must end game on 15-20 min. Its early game hero, after 20+- min its garbage.

[Night]

Originally posted by DIO:

you dont rith man, chen always was very strong hero, just only need -- its you teamattes must pick and play with you, on fust push strat, team with chan must end game on 15-20 min. Its early game hero, after 20+- min its garbage.

That is, literally, exactly what I said. If you're not winning by 20min he's useless.

And the rest of his abilities are garbage too just normally. He has like a period between 10-20min 'golden' period where he's about as useful as other supports. Before that he can't get any decent creeps and after that his ultimate barely has any impact... the rest of his abilities barely had any impact to begin with.

[Pandar_archer]

Originally posted by Night:

Originally posted by DIO:

you dont rith man, chen always was very strong hero, just only need -- its you teamattes must pick and play with you, on fust push strat, team with chan must end game on 15-20 min. Its early game hero, after 20+- min its garbage.

That is, literally, exactly what I said. If you're not winning by 20min he's useless.

And the rest of his abilities are garbage too just normally. He has like a period between 10-20min 'golden' period where he's about as useful as other supports. Before that he can't get any decent creeps and after that his ultimate barely has any impact... the rest of his abilities barely had any impact to begin with.

many heroes had same mechanics, like rasta, lycan (early game heroes) or spectre, meduza (late heroes). All dota based on this. Here we have early game heroes, mid game, and late game. To win you need to implement the power of you hero. Not farm afk 50+ min with Lion, dazzle, chen, ursa, and shaker in team, Its early game setap (for example) and you must win in first 10-20 min, if not -- chance to win will less after every min.

[BoOsTeR]

even weakest knifes are super strong if be on right hands , this is not hero problem , chen is just a so hard to play hero so you never seen a perfect chen player before like me

[Night]

Originally posted by BoOsTeR:

even weakest knifes are super strong if be on right hands , this is not hero problem , chen is just a so hard to play hero so you never seen a perfect chen player before like me

You're missing the point. Chen isn't the lowest picked hero in the game (including competitive) because he's just hard to play. He's hard to play with also no payoff.

It is definitely a hero problem. Everything he does is lackluster.
You get flamed for even picking him because a good player who can do well with chen would have three times as much impact playing literally any other support.


Chen is useless for 90% of the game except for a single ten minute span where he kind of works. Even during that time he's no more useful than a good CM, earthshaker, enigma, io, omniknight, jakiro, or literally any other hero.


He just becomes 'OK' during his time to shine. At all other points in the game he's down right terrible.



And, the sad part is, I can't blame people for flaming chen pickers right now. Because there is zero reason to pick him.


If you're really good with chen then your skills are already good enough to be really good with all other supports as well. Ask yourself, what, exactly, does chen bring to the table?

He pilfers creeps from his carry and may not even get anything legitimately useful. By the time he can actually convert decent creeps it's 10 minutes in and you're just stealing farm from your carry. you MIGHT get a kill if you're lucky and the enemy is stupid during this time but by 'lucky' all we're really saying is he'll get access to a root or a stun... which plenty of supports just have without stealing farm.


After the laning period creeps are useless in teamfight so you may as well just convert catapults to push.




His Q is completely lackluster and his E is literally the most unimpactful aura i've ever seen and is ALSO useless after laning phase since the entire team will be together anyways except for the person farming... and you definitely don't want to call them over unless for very specific, well thought out, reasons.




So I ask... who's hands exactly are we talking about that he's so good in? Nobody plays the hero. Again, not because he's hard. Invoker is hard, meepo is hard, current chen is just a buff bot that has some basic micro in the beginning of the game.

He's not hard to play these days. He's just pointless.

[t(^_^t)]

it was fun before the update where his skill can deal magic damage to heroes (Its like Bane's skill Brain Sap kinda damage). AHAHAHA I totally enjoyed playing chen with DAGON build before. but yeah, only turbo matches if I recall. *or unranked.

[Night]

Originally posted by t(^_^t):

it was fun before the update where his skill can deal magic damage to heroes (Its like Bane's skill Brain Sap kinda damage). AHAHAHA I totally enjoyed playing chen with DAGON build before. but yeah, only turbo matches if I recall. *or unranked.

yeah, back when he could actually do something reasonable lol.
If i wanted to just play a buff bot I'd just pick IO who has a far more impactful ultimate and is useful throughout the entire game.

[Leon]

Match id ? How many chen game you have ?

[Absche]

Something makes him top 10 win rate hero in Divine/Immortal ranks.

[Night]

Originally posted by DIO:

Originally posted by Night:

That is, literally, exactly what I said. If you're not winning by 20min he's useless.

And the rest of his abilities are garbage too just normally. He has like a period between 10-20min 'golden' period where he's about as useful as other supports. Before that he can't get any decent creeps and after that his ultimate barely has any impact... the rest of his abilities barely had any impact to begin with.

many heroes had same mechanics, like rasta, lycan (early game heroes) or spectre, meduza (late heroes). All dota based on this. Here we have early game heroes, mid game, and late game. To win you need to implement the power of you hero. Not farm afk 50+ min with Lion, dazzle, chen, ursa, and shaker in team, Its early game setap (for example) and you must win in first 10-20 min, if not -- chance to win will less after every min.

Rasta, lycan, specter, medusa are all far more impactful even outside of their golden periods than chen AND are absolutely AMAZING within their given times.

Specter and medusa are only unimpactful for about 10-15 minutes and then have 40minutes where they can make an impact (scaling upwards the entire time). Chen has a sharp useful/useless binary curve that makes him pointless for 90% of a given game unless that game was only 20 minutes long.

If you want a support who will win early game then still... why tf would you pick chen.

Pick io for massive ganks or pick disrupter or lich or earthshaker or enigma or any hero that has farm more teamfighting ability.

If you want push enigma is way better at pushing than chen.


I'm not saying it's impossible to win with chen. I'm saying chen, as a hero, is completely overshadowed by every other support in the game. He does nothing exciting or impactful and any game you would have won with chen is a game you would have won with literally any other support in his place.

But the reverse is not true.

Chen is a lot of work just to do what comes naturally for every other support.

[Night]

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

Something makes him top 10 win rate hero in Divine/Immortal ranks.

He's not top 10 win rate hero in divine/immortal lol what are you smoking.
im looking at the trends right now.

Chen is 32nd in immortal rank and 40th in divine.

Originally posted by Dante:

Match id ? How many chen game you have ?

I have almost 200 matches with chen. 100 victories and 91 losses.


but hell don't just take my word for it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/c1yuf8/is_chen_really_trash_now_and_why_they_still_ban_it/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/2632850678909965849/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/2245553353026015833/

and, perhaps reddits favorite post about chen:


https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/bfu3su/the_current_state_of_chen_is_an_absolute_disgrace/

[Night]

Originally posted by Dean Ambrose:

Is garbage for the low bracket..

Go tell this to the high mmr players..

Considering chen is the lowest picked hero in the game for professionals... I don't think i need to tell them that.

[Leon]

I’m actually want to see match id not another discussion.

[Night]

Originally posted by Dante:

I’m actually want to see match id not another discussion.

Um no, I'm not an idiot and I'm not going to post my information on a message board so people can berate and belittle or w/e the purpose of that might be.

We're talking about Chen. If there's something I've said about him that is wrong then just address my points.


He literally has a 1% pick rate in divine... less in every other bracket.

[Leon]

Originally posted by Night:

Originally posted by Dean Ambrose:

Is garbage for the low bracket..

Go tell this to the high mmr players..

Considering chen is the lowest picked hero in the game for professionals... I don't think i need to tell them that.

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
Top 5 win rate in divine bracket.