How do we improve the new player experience?

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Let me lay it to you straight, guys. Much as I hate the people who go "HA HA X gam is dEd!", Dota 2 IS dying, with the playerbase falling below the highs of the first half of last year and the lowest its been since 2014 (source: PCG: https://www.pcgamer.com/new-top-steam-game-csgo-player-counts-have-officially-overtaken-dota-2/ https://www.pcgamer.com/dota-underlords-peak-player-count-has-dropped-by-more-than-90-percent/ ). Underlords has dropped even more, and it's not a problem with MOBA's or auto-battlers, LoL and Teamfight Tactics are vastly exceeding Dota 2 and Underlords.

SUNSfan blames the problems with Dota 2 on the poor New Player Experience, which has always been terrible but was exacerbated by the Outlanders patch. I think the neutral items are a great change overall, especially as a Support player, but they're confusing for new players and not explained anywhere but the patch notes; which, needless to say, new players don't read. Besides Outlanders, there are two main problems with Dota 2 for noobs: A terrible, largely nonexistent tutorial, and smurfs. The former is easy, if time-consuming for Valve to fix. Look at Blazblue CF and Tropico 6 for how to do a tutorial properly: detailed, lengthy tutorials that touch on every single mechanic. Dota 2's tutorial needs to cover EVERYTHING, from how to Stack and Pull to what different Roles should do to when you should take teamfights. Anything less will cause noobs to bounce off after 10 hours and never return. Players shouldn't have to watch youtube guides to do anything more advanced than moving around.

The other problem isn't Valves, it's ours. SMURFING. Guys, if you want Dota 2 to live, STOP SMURFING. You are killing the game. There's not much Valve can do about smurfing, because it's impossible to distinguish a smurf from a noob until they roflstomp, and even harder to distinguish a smurf from a noob who gets lucky.

Are there any other things we or Valve can do to improve the new player experience? Let's do our part to save Dota 2!

[mimizukari]

we don't need tutorials, tutorial is bot matches. this game is too complicated to explain with a book, and there's no way a tutorial can accurately explain what to do when everything goes awry.... Dota+ is the NPE, buy that and focus on learning your mechanics, use that for itemization for your first few hundreds of hours. eventually you'll learn, well, I don't need the next item it recommends, then rebuild build list and start experimenting.

[zZzooey.exe]

I personally think problem with dota2 is that majority of fanbase is stubborn and nostalgic ex-dotA (dota1) players who are getting too old for games and thus getting bored and quitting. They are/were the hardcore fanbase, and new players cant really relate in those ways.
New players see a complicated, long curve learning game and get bored and quit fast, since majority of trending games right now are easy to get into, are built for 9-year old-mentality and babysit you, alot. Im not saying those games are bad per se, but money indeed is in kids as audience, when you put out content or product online. Dota2 is not really kid friendly, at least I think so.

I think dota2 can save its new audience if they do some drastic changes to appeal ''kids'' and ''new curious players'', but those changes may alienate most veteran players who are ''too stubborn to accept anything less than a warcraft 3 mod'', something that doesnt exist since 2012 but they are still chasing. I dunno.

[mimizukari]

It's never fun to keep playing a game that gets less complex over time, dungeon crawl stone soup took that route back in like 0.11 and it hasn't been the same since, streamlining every update, etc... Good complexity that doesn't feel grindy and new features and mechanics need to keep being added otherwise this wouldn't be Dota, it'd be League or HOTS... Dota is good at doing what it's doing, sweeping changes that keep you playing for another 6 months before the next major patch.

This latest update has had me playing nonstop, it's quite literally the best thing to ever happen to Dota.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Originally posted by Ruri Kurosaki:

It's never fun to keep playing a game that gets less complex over time, dungeon crawl stone soup took that route back in like 0.11 and it hasn't been the same since, streamlining every update, etc... Good complexity that doesn't feel grindy and new features and mechanics need to keep being added otherwise this wouldn't be Dota, it'd be League or HOTS... Dota is good at doing what it's doing, sweeping changes that keep you playing for another 6 months before the next major patch.

This latest update has had me playing nonstop, it's quite literally the best thing to ever happen to Dota.

Oh, I definitely agree that the update is a ton of fun, and I have no problems with the actual gameplay of Dota 2. It easily wins the title of 'best MOBA', if not 'best competative game', BECAUSE of its complexity and depth. It's just a lot for noobs to take in, and having like 30 different mechanics thrown in their face without any explanation doesn't help the playerbase grow. I.E. don't make the game easier, just teach it better.

[Absche]

Valve and the community are not welcoming new players. They are really bad at it.
I'm waiting for activities like the following for years, but none of them was ever realized:
- Tutor system to guide newbies through their first matches
- Protected matchmaking which matches newbies with newbies
- Lobby area for newbies to get info an find kindred spirit
- "Summer schools" in school holidays to allow for really intense and curated gaming in the beginning
- Newbie tournaments
- Protection from reports for bad play
The problem is that Dota2 can't distinguish between real newbies and smurfs. They don't even try. And the community dislikes newbies because they "ruin" games in th eye of more experienced players. I think new patches are a minor problem for newbies but more for older players.

[a ranged creep]

How do you decide who is 'newbie'? I can set up a new account, et voila! i'm a 'newbie'.

[Zagryzaec]

Do you say, that lol don't have smurfs? You are sooooo wrong. And as stuns are much weaker and rare, smurfing is a much bigger problem in lol.

As a gameplay goes - it's nowhere near DotA. Look in the other places the reason. Also what last international prize fund of lol?

[a ranged creep]

what do stuns have to do with smurf numbers?
what does a prize fund last year have to do with current player numbers?

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Do you say, that lol don't have smurfs? You are sooooo wrong. And as stuns are much weaker and rare, smurfing is a much bigger problem in lol.

As a gameplay goes - it's nowhere near DotA. Look in the other places the reason. Also what last international prize fund of lol?

I only said LoL had more players than Dota 2. I never said anything about the quality of LoL or the frequency of smurfing.

[nMate]

Toxic game

[Thesightless]

stop latino players from picking carry heroes and the game fixes itself.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Originally posted by will just feed now:

stop latino players from picking carry heroes and the game fixes itself.

Very good point, foolish, cowardly racism is a serious problem in Dota 2. Seriously, I'd rather have a Brazilian on my team than an Alt-Right whackjob.

[Thesightless]

oh it figures you're a leaf. enjoy your LARPING PM and his many many faces. no wonder your country is a laughing stock when someone tries to talk about it seriuosly.