BLOCKING JUNGLE WITH WARD

[YUℝℕEℝ0]

There are times when 1 of our teammates rage and trying to feed but not really feeding them,in fact they block our jungle with sentry or obs,how can we destroy our own ward in order for us to farm in our jungle? pls help..THIS IS SEA BTW

[Chilli Dog Dave]

mid lane got angry at me once for blocking both our and enemy jungle camps.
enemy brood was obviously smurfing, he was farming side lanes between creep wave kills so i denied his easier income to the point he started going deeper into our jungle to snatch jungle creeps so i denied those camps as well, he ended up going 1-8-2 middle in the first 17minutes because of this and it took him 22minutes to make scepter where as our timbersaw middle had bloodstone and a relic working into radiance.

our team whined i blocked the camps.

end of the game (we won at 37 or so minutes) the brood said stop flaming ogre (me) because i completely stomped him, he hadn't seen a support 3 steps ahead of him constantly since divine battle cup ranks so that was a nice bit of input from the guy i was stomping

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Origineel geplaatst door tom:

Origineel geplaatst door Yoshino Himekawa:

As frustrating as it is when a salty teammate blocks your own camps because 'stop farming n00b', I can't think of any solution that wouldn't just replace it with new forms of abuse. Allowing players to freely deny ally wards would just create an even worse form of trolling; bad carries would deny valid wards to 'punish' the support for not placing wards exactly where they want. The obvious solution would be to make ally wards deniable if they're blocking a camp, but even that has problems. Blocking camps in the enemy jungle is almost always good, and blocking camps in the ally jungle is almost always bad, but there are exceptions. The biggest one is the large camp near the T1 side lanes. Which team wants to pull, and which team wants to block, depends entirely on where the lane equilibrium is. If the lane is pushing out, you want to pull it, and if it's pushing in, you want to block it, REGARDLESS of whether you are playing offlane or safelane.

This could create a problem even worse than ally camp blocking. As it stands, someone who blocks ally camps is blatantly in the wrong, and will likely be reported by his whole team. However, if ally wards can be denied, that could create a conflict over the large camp; where one player thinks it should be blocked, and the other player thinks it should be stacked / pulled. This would result in a player conflict EVEN THOUGH BOTH PLAYERS ARE TRYING TO WIN, which is far more insidiously disruptive to teamplay than trolling, as neither player is 'wrong'.

Remember, if someone wants to throw, they are going to find a way to do so, no matter what barriers you put in their path. However, trying too hard to patch trolling will either create new forms of trolling (which doesn't fix anything), restrict legitimate play (which is absurd; games shouldn't be balanced around the assumption that one of the players might throw a hissy fit), or create new forms of conflict (the worst of all, as it can cause two legit players to fight).

this.
there is no way to prevent trolling witouth ruining the game.
if someone wants to troll, he'll find a way.

Also, as Miaou mentioned, the Mid lane camps are also good candidates for blocking; if Mid is a complete blowout, blocking your own camps can check the farm of a hero like Meepo or Brood, and is far safer and more effective than trying to block the enemy camp, where it'll just get dewarded and you might die in the process.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Origineel geplaatst door Chilli Dog Dave:

mid lane got angry at me once for blocking both our and enemy jungle camps.
enemy brood was obviously smurfing, he was farming side lanes between creep wave kills so i denied his easier income to the point he started going deeper into our jungle to snatch jungle creeps so i denied those camps as well, he ended up going 1-8-2 middle in the first 17minutes because of this and it took him 22minutes to make scepter where as our timbersaw middle had bloodstone and a relic working into radiance.

our team whined i blocked the camps.

end of the game (we won at 37 or so minutes) the brood said stop flaming ogre (me) because i completely stomped him, he hadn't seen a support 3 steps ahead of him constantly since divine battle cup ranks so that was a nice bit of input from the guy i was stomping

Whenever I see an enemy hero getting flamed unfairly, I always try to back them up. Especially if it's a poor Support getting saddled with the blame by a gung-ho Carry who died 5 times in the enemy jungle because 'no wards n00b!'. Us punching bags got to stick together.

[☠ ௹ ☠ ௹ ☠]

Origineel geplaatst door wrath.:

Origineel geplaatst door SGT_pawn:

They are not trolling, these players are just trying to help you, help them. It's sad they must ward your jungle, so you stop farming.

They have no other choice, stop farming, and start helping. This is Dota, it might seem like the players are angry or trolling, but they are trying to help.

Regardless of your intent or your reasons behind doing so, you are still hindering your team by removing their safe farm from the game just because you got upset with them. I find myself in many games where my cores would rather jungle when the enemy is down 4 heroes. I find myself begging my team in these games to take these very easy towers and they just afk farm and we lose.

What happens if you block all of your safe farm? They'll get greedy and try to take very risky farm in pushed lanes and the enemy jungle and they're willing to die for it. Players that are hellbent on farming will farm no matter what. All that is accomplished by blocking jungle camps from your carries is you are now the reason they can't get items.

I'm all for my cores grouping with me and helping around the map, it's awesome when they are helpful, but it's best asked nicely and with encouragement. Example: "Hey void, can you group with us? Your chrono is up and we can easily take a fight and a tower." Something along those lines usually gets someone moving in my experience. If a fight goes well, tell your core they did a good job. If it went bad, don't blame them.

For people crying about people blocking camps, Match ID - 5381707261

Enemy blocked 5 or 6 of my jungle camps around min 14.....what did I do? I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rotated to their jungle and stole all their farm. So let's think about this......they block 5 or 6 camps and I have a solution......if my team blocks 5 or 6 camps then it is a problem?

The people crying about supports warding their camps are the same people who don't actually understand how the game works. If you can't handle a person warding your camps foe or ally, then gtfo. Someone warding your camps is really not new...so stick the enemies with the bad camps. I see most crying about blocked camps with like 500 MMR.....ya ok blocked camps is what keeps you at 500 mmr lol x.x cant be the lack of flexibility or inability to problem solve x.x

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Origineel geplaatst door ÐÐ.Klaw:

Origineel geplaatst door wrath.:

Regardless of your intent or your reasons behind doing so, you are still hindering your team by removing their safe farm from the game just because you got upset with them. I find myself in many games where my cores would rather jungle when the enemy is down 4 heroes. I find myself begging my team in these games to take these very easy towers and they just afk farm and we lose.

What happens if you block all of your safe farm? They'll get greedy and try to take very risky farm in pushed lanes and the enemy jungle and they're willing to die for it. Players that are hellbent on farming will farm no matter what. All that is accomplished by blocking jungle camps from your carries is you are now the reason they can't get items.

I'm all for my cores grouping with me and helping around the map, it's awesome when they are helpful, but it's best asked nicely and with encouragement. Example: "Hey void, can you group with us? Your chrono is up and we can easily take a fight and a tower." Something along those lines usually gets someone moving in my experience. If a fight goes well, tell your core they did a good job. If it went bad, don't blame them.

For people crying about people blocking camps, Match ID - 5381707261

Enemy blocked 5 or 6 of my jungle camps around min 14.....what did I do? I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rotated to their jungle and stole all their farm. So let's think about this......they block 5 or 6 camps and I have a solution......if my team blocks 5 or 6 camps then it is a problem?

The people crying about supports warding their camps are the same people who don't actually understand how the game works. If you can't handle a person warding your camps foe or ally, then gtfo. Someone warding your camps is really not new...so stick the enemies with the bad camps. I see most crying about blocked camps with like 500 MMR.....ya ok blocked camps is what keeps you at 500 mmr lol x.x cant be the lack of flexibility or inability to problem solve x.x

To be fair, sub-500 MMR really is a trench. Not in the sense of being impossible to climb out of, but in the sense of being totally unlike regular Dota. In Guardian and Crusader, people are merely bad at Dota, with the occasional smurf. It IS possible to climb out of it through hard work and a good attitude, as pros like Speeed (of GameLeap) and SirActionSlacks (of DotaCinema) prove. Herald, on the other hand... It's a literal cesspit where all the flotsam of the Dota community end up. Smurfs, flamers, absolutely terribad noobs, and worse are what make up the Herald playerpool. To give you an idea of how bad it is, Meepo has a 53% winrate from Guardian to Divine, but only 50% in Herald. It's so bad that even a smurf can't carry such terrible teammates. Either that, or the games are smurf mid vs. smurf mid and the other 8 players are cannon fodder.

[☠ ௹ ☠ ௹ ☠]

Origineel geplaatst door Yoshino Himekawa:

Origineel geplaatst door ÐÐ.Klaw:

For people crying about people blocking camps, Match ID - 5381707261

Enemy blocked 5 or 6 of my jungle camps around min 14.....what did I do? I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rotated to their jungle and stole all their farm. So let's think about this......they block 5 or 6 camps and I have a solution......if my team blocks 5 or 6 camps then it is a problem?

The people crying about supports warding their camps are the same people who don't actually understand how the game works. If you can't handle a person warding your camps foe or ally, then gtfo. Someone warding your camps is really not new...so stick the enemies with the bad camps. I see most crying about blocked camps with like 500 MMR.....ya ok blocked camps is what keeps you at 500 mmr lol x.x cant be the lack of flexibility or inability to problem solve x.x

To be fair, sub-500 MMR really is a trench. Not in the sense of being impossible to climb out of, but in the sense of being totally unlike regular Dota. In Guardian and Crusader, people are merely bad at Dota, with the occasional smurf. It IS possible to climb out of it through hard work and a good attitude, as pros like Speeed (of GameLeap) and SirActionSlacks (of DotaCinema) prove. Herald, on the other hand... It's a literal cesspit where all the flotsam of the Dota community end up. Smurfs, flamers, absolutely terribad noobs, and worse are what make up the Herald playerpool. To give you an idea of how bad it is, Meepo has a 53% winrate from Guardian to Divine, but only 50% in Herald. It's so bad that even a smurf can't carry such terrible teammates. Either that, or the games are smurf mid vs. smurf mid and the other 8 players are cannon fodder.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2020624567

Just because I'm not famous like Speed or SAS doesn't mean I don't understand. Climbed from 100mmr to 5k mmr and yet people act like I dont know how the ♥♥♥♥ I did it.

Profile ID - 237935911 (Divine 2)

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Origineel geplaatst door ÐÐ.Klaw:

Origineel geplaatst door Yoshino Himekawa:

To be fair, sub-500 MMR really is a trench. Not in the sense of being impossible to climb out of, but in the sense of being totally unlike regular Dota. In Guardian and Crusader, people are merely bad at Dota, with the occasional smurf. It IS possible to climb out of it through hard work and a good attitude, as pros like Speeed (of GameLeap) and SirActionSlacks (of DotaCinema) prove. Herald, on the other hand... It's a literal cesspit where all the flotsam of the Dota community end up. Smurfs, flamers, absolutely terribad noobs, and worse are what make up the Herald playerpool. To give you an idea of how bad it is, Meepo has a 53% winrate from Guardian to Divine, but only 50% in Herald. It's so bad that even a smurf can't carry such terrible teammates. Either that, or the games are smurf mid vs. smurf mid and the other 8 players are cannon fodder.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2020624567

Just because I'm not famous like Speed or SAS doesn't mean I don't understand. Climbed from 100mmr to 5k mmr and yet people act like I dont know how the ♥♥♥♥ I did it.

Profile ID - 237935911 (Divine 2)

My apologies then. I've never played in Herald myself, just going based on hearsay.