Carry Heroes as Hard Support: New Meta?

[Rigor Mortis]

When i decided to play safe or offlane or smth like not supporting, my team supports always be carry heroes.
Look at my last games, hard support sniper, hard support weaver, hard support invoker(it was not bad tho)
And so toxic players as well. My rank wasnt changed but is it new meta to play hard carry heroes as hard support and ruin the game?

[Fistraiser]

Sniper is extremely bad as pos5 as it will take you too long to see aghs.
That's the reason it works so well as pos4.youre allowed get that bit of farm.and team kills and your hard support still buy most of the utility items.glimmer,force staff etc.
If you think you've been playing pos5 sniper and winning the chances are you werent..playing the role properly.

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

SGT_pawn eredeti hozzászólása:

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

i sound very noob?

Yes


@OP, Ignore this person. They are a lemming. Maybe check out some guides, or listen to some top level players about how those heros can be good as support. I can tell you, like I said in my first post, those three heros are just "good". Some heros are OP and you can do w.e you want with them.

lul you sound very noob. youre just repeating what i said when you said listen to some top level players omegalul. I get it. you rephrase things to seem smart. HAHAHAAH some troll you got here. also, they way you quote things stems from poor comprehension and selective understanding ;) a sign of a closed minded person that only chose what he understand and not understanding the whole context. cant blame you tho. proly poor education ever since you were a kid ^_^ i wont reply on your comments tho cuz clearly you dont have the understanding that is required to comprehend my statements ^_^

Rigor Mortis eredeti hozzászólása:

There's tons of heroes playing support, i think. Pub games are not appropriate for picking sniper and saying to safelane farmer to "i will support you" and not buying any of wards, and not stunning, not helping a little bit.

just ignore that troll. messing every thread. as i said. they are good pos 4. thats the usual position pro players use them on. if a teammate fails to play as a support in picking em, just report them. but never rule out the possibility that they can be played as support (pos 4) cuz clearly pros are using them and they work.

[Ulthwé]

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

Fort Lahns P4 / P5 eredeti hozzászólása:

Sniper doesn't have ministun.

You know who else has slow debuffs? Undying, Venomancer, CM, Dazzle, Jakiro, Lich, Warlock, Winter Wyvern, etc.

UMMMM. your first statement clearly shows you have no understanding on the unconventional support...... Sniper's ulti is a mini stun. It can cancel tp. having aghanims will cause the mini stun to be a disable last 1.5s.... i know there are better heroes that has that but the usefulness of sniper provides a long rage distance vision when casting ulti. and all other tricks that only open minded people that is willing to experiment can understand ^_^ no wonder pros are ahead becuase they understand heroes openly ;) might as well try to understand the versatility of heroes ;)

You said ministun chance which clearly indicates you meant headshot which is not a stun but a knockback. Because his ult is guaranteed mini stun.

[Ulthwé]

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

Fort Lahns P4 / P5 eredeti hozzászólása:

Except that Sniper's Ministun on Assassinate isn't by chance in contrast to what you said.

You know who has a 1.5s stun? VS, ES, SK, WR, Rubick, Lion, Ogre, Lina, Jakiro. The difference is that their stun doesn't cost them 4,200 gold.

as i said. there are other heroes that provide better stuns and disables. but other teams were not just considering sniper for its stun. they were considering a whole lot of factors WHICH YOU FAIL TO SEE since you cant accept that they are viable as supports. for example, he can provide vision using his slow. he can provide a long range burst damage which makes him hard to reach especially if positioned properly. he can deal lots of right clicks + knockbacks that can catch supports offguard. there are other reasons why pro teams pick sniper support. you just have to understand them and be open bout it.

A support role is not to be able to deal a lot of right click damages, even on supports. You misconceive what a support is.

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

Miaou eredeti hozzászólása:

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

UMMMM. your first statement clearly shows you have no understanding on the unconventional support...... Sniper's ulti is a mini stun. It can cancel tp. having aghanims will cause the mini stun to be a disable last 1.5s.... i know there are better heroes that has that but the usefulness of sniper provides a long rage distance vision when casting ulti. and all other tricks that only open minded people that is willing to experiment can understand ^_^ no wonder pros are ahead becuase they understand heroes openly ;) might as well try to understand the versatility of heroes ;)

You said ministun chance which clearly indicates you meant headshot which is not a stun but a knockback. Because his ult is guaranteed mini stun.

i was at fault there. the chance was supposed to be on the knockback which i didnt include in typing

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

Miaou eredeti hozzászólása:

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

as i said. there are other heroes that provide better stuns and disables. but other teams were not just considering sniper for its stun. they were considering a whole lot of factors WHICH YOU FAIL TO SEE since you cant accept that they are viable as supports. for example, he can provide vision using his slow. he can provide a long range burst damage which makes him hard to reach especially if positioned properly. he can deal lots of right clicks + knockbacks that can catch supports offguard. there are other reasons why pro teams pick sniper support. you just have to understand them and be open bout it.

A support role is not to be able to deal a lot of right click damages, even on supports. You misconceive what a support is.

i am just saying that as his perks. lul i am not saying that thats the main job of the support. come on HAHAHHAHAHAAH wtf. thats why im saying tons of things there. i am stating the pros of sniper support. its not just right clicks. read again. damn. too many people with selective comprehension.

[Absche]

There is so much more Dota2 to discover aside the main stream meta. But in fear of getting reported this remains „terra incognita“ for many solo queue players. Premades are more open to check new things out.

[Ulthwé]

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

Miaou eredeti hozzászólása:

A support role is not to be able to deal a lot of right click damages, even on supports. You misconceive what a support is.

i am just saying that as his perks. lul i am not saying that thats the main job of the support. come on HAHAHHAHAHAAH wtf. thats why im saying tons of things there. i am stating the pros of sniper support. its not just right clicks. read again. damn. too many people with selective comprehension.

I have a global comprehension, it is only a point where you are wrong. Sniper is garbage to harass on safelane because offlane often have some armor or regen, the few headshots you will manage to have won't equal the magical burst of many supports. Your shrapnel will push the lane, take farm from your carry and maybe even allow them to deny range creeps. Sniper is weak and has no escape, it means 0 survivabilty especially if you go straight aghs, so no glimmer or force staff to survive. He doesn't have mana to spam his ult as any other support would spam his stun. Should I carry on?

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

Card Gamer eredeti hozzászólása:

There is so much more Dota2 to discover aside the main stream meta. But in fear of getting reported this remains „terra incognita“ for many solo queue players. Premades are more open to check new things out.

truu. once a closed minded player see you with an unconventional pick or item, theyd report you and would say "you are not playing your role blablabla... why did you build that item blablabla". party is best tho if someone wants to experiment.

[Fistraiser]

Btw if you want a fun pos 4 support go aghs aetherlens Sven XD or rush ahgs on kunka and take all torrent talents..these 2 work really strongly as pos 4 with their aghs and are super annoying for enemy team.

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

Miaou eredeti hozzászólása:

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

i am just saying that as his perks. lul i am not saying that thats the main job of the support. come on HAHAHHAHAHAAH wtf. thats why im saying tons of things there. i am stating the pros of sniper support. its not just right clicks. read again. damn. too many people with selective comprehension.

I have a global comprehension, it is only a point where you are wrong. Sniper is garbage to harass on safelane because offlane often have some armor or regen, the few headshots you will manage to have won't equal the magical burst of many supports. Your shrapnel will push the lane, take farm from your carry and maybe even allow them to deny range creeps. Sniper is weak and has no escape, it means 0 survivabilty especially if you go straight aghs, so no glimmer or force staff to survive. He doesn't have mana to spam his ult as any other support would spam his stun. Should I carry on?

blatantly saying you have "global comprehension" and failing to understand the statement where i said the perks of sniper by pointing out something that isnt even the focus. ummmm.. okay. hahaha anyways, those are his issues. just like every hero. why would pro teams pick him tho as a pos 4 since he is so garbage base on what you are saying? why would pro teams win against pro teams tho if he is so garbage?? and please, dont give me the reason that "ohhh they are pro teams". lul NO. they can do it cuz they understand the hero deeply. once we understand the hero deeply, and play with people who understand how an unconventional support works, it is doable. even on pubs..

[Sotj]

Might suck in higher skilled games, but if it's noob game I think it's even better to have just more carries, because they usually go to very late game anyway, ppl just farming and no teamwork.

[Fistraiser]

Sotj eredeti hozzászólása:

Might suck in higher skilled games, but if it's noob game I think it's even better to have just more carries, because they usually go to very late game anyway, ppl just farming and no teamwork.

Sad thing is what you say is true at lower skill brackets.the infamous 5 carry draft usually beats the team that drafts supports with their carries.
Although you can also stomp a team with 5 support heroes by crushing early game xd

[∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞]

Sotj eredeti hozzászólása:

Might suck in higher skilled games, but if it's noob game I think it's even better to have just more carries, because they usually go to very late game anyway, ppl just farming and no teamwork.

somehow tru tho. lower ranks tend to contest on kills so they pick carries most often. also, they dont understand the value of supports. higher mmr tho understand the complexity and versatility of the game . it does not necessarily suck on high mmr. maybe they are still understanding how unconventional support works. after a few games tho, thats where the real value shows. just like pros executing the prowess of these unconventional supports. i still remember luna and sven supports. luna for her aura, stun, and burst damage. and sven for his stun, armor buff, and AOE God's Strength (not until they changed it tho). and other perks they provide

[Ulthwé]

∞ＰＡＲＡＤＯＸ∞ eredeti hozzászólása:

Miaou eredeti hozzászólása:

I have a global comprehension, it is only a point where you are wrong. Sniper is garbage to harass on safelane because offlane often have some armor or regen, the few headshots you will manage to have won't equal the magical burst of many supports. Your shrapnel will push the lane, take farm from your carry and maybe even allow them to deny range creeps. Sniper is weak and has no escape, it means 0 survivabilty especially if you go straight aghs, so no glimmer or force staff to survive. He doesn't have mana to spam his ult as any other support would spam his stun. Should I carry on?

blatantly saying you have "global comprehension" and failing to understand the statement where i said the perks of sniper by pointing out something that isnt even the focus. ummmm.. okay. hahaha anyways, those are his issues. just like every hero. why would pro teams pick him tho as a pos 4 since he is so garbage base on what you are saying? why would pro teams win against pro teams tho if he is so garbage?? and please, dont give me the reason that "ohhh they are pro teams". lul NO. they can do it cuz they understand the hero deeply. once we understand the hero deeply, and play with people who understand how an unconventional support works, it is doable. even on pubs..

Do you even play support yourself to ground your claims? I am divine 1 support, so yes I will say there are chances I have a more global comprehension than you. You said what were his perks, I tell you what are his flaws. Maybe pros are bored and they want to experiment. Maybe they only what to exploit the meta and pick heroes who aren't intended to be sup, this is the reason why sniper shrapnel slow got nerfed in a precious patch. Do pros still play sniper pos 4 after the nerf?