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+ Vipers' W is so good for farming neutrals while MK is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tier jungler.
It's like following am.
He can just appear in lane and as soon as you come just tree dance out or even tp, if you used one. Do you force staff after him?
Later he will appear in lane and kill support faster then you tp there.
And while you running between lanes after him you don't get any items and farm. And viper needs farm doesn't he?
You don't seem to understand how dota works to be honest. MK is an anti carry/snowball hero that is only viable if he had a good lane to play in. Unlike other carries, MK is absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at jungling therefore relies on a good laning stage to function. MK absolutely CANNOT function at all in team fights against a viper without an early bkb which would consequently disallow him from getting any damage items.
Viper completely stops that however as in my opinion viper is the hardest counter to MK in the laning stage. You said that MK could tree dance, well, as i've already said, viper could just run into the lane MK is in and only tp if MK teleports elsewhere. This would ensure that viper is constantly griefing MK. As i've said previously, Viper doesn't need a good laning phase to function, I think the only role for picking viper against MK is to ruin MK's game entirely.
Btw, viper does not need farm in the laning stage. Viper with 2 levels in his w can farm jungle just as fast as a 2 slotted battlefury AM and he only needs 2 items to be viable in team fights.
TLDR: MK needs to lane early on, viper just needs to stick to MK 24/7 whether it be walking or tping to ruin his game.
How much speed viper need to run into lane where most goes with treedance? How will he follow after him over unpassable terrain?
Can mk without a lot of damage items kill support? Cm, lion, shaman? How quickly?
If mk tree danced from mid lane where viper should run? Top or bottom. Naturally no xp while you run, while enemy core is farming.
What lot of damage items do you mean. A sb and sable should be plenty.
Vipers job= to ruin MK's lane. All viper needs to do to ruin MK's game is to follow MK if he goes to lane. Just walk to the lane MK is in if he jumped there(which still takes a lot of time for the MK) or teleport there if MK teleported there(visibly).
All you have to do as viper is to ruin MK's early game to prevent his snowball. As i've said before, MK is very bad at jungling. So by the time team fights start(around 15-20 mins in the current meta or even earlier depending on team comp)
MK will have no farm, no levels and will still have to deal with a vipers' W which prevents him from building jingu stacks in team fights.
Sb and echosabre is useless on MK if he cant stack LOL. Viper's W breaks passives thus MK can't stack his jingu mastery on anyone in team fights. MK's main damage comes from his jingu early game and his ult snowballs off his farm as well. Viper disables both of this therefore completely ruining MK's game.
Even if mk doesn't move extremely fast, viper does not move with the same speed. So he will always follow but never reach. You see mk leave mid(for example) jumping back - you can't follow him through terrain. Then once you see him top for example and start going there he already took out support or even carry, and a pack of creeps with the help of offlaner and support. If you tp there he tp bot and he is free. So you have to go by feet (or whatever viper have). And when you are there he already in the trees. Or in the mid. You don't know - he is not seen in trees and move through terrain. You don't.
Also mk doesn't really need his passive in ult. He needs his stun, sable help to keep enemy inside. He don't even need to hit himself.
If somehow he got sb and sable (which he shouldn't if you stalk him well but still) his gameplay looks like : appear near your support with double hit sable somewhere on the map, immidiately stun with stick, add hit - stacked. Hit or two more - support dead he disengage. How do you even start following him like that?
And most important of all on high mmr supports will help him against viper. On lower mmr swap line and your counter will never follow you. and he can cs without stacks.
I don't say that viper doesn't counter most at all. He counters every hero reliant on his passive. I telling how you can play when countered. Mk has a high advantage in mobility over viper. So he don't have to fight near viper at all, untill he is ready.
Every hero has their counters.
.... What are you talking about?
It really does seem like you don't know what you're talking about XD. Lane dodging cannot be sustained else both parties would suffer from the lack of farm. However, in this case, Viper is a much better farmer than monkey king therefore even if viper doesn't last hit in lane and just follows MK to whichever lane he goes to in order to shut him down, it will still be worth it in the end.
How does a monkey king kill a support without his jingu early? If i'm a viper and he added w to dodge my lane he would be totally useless in the laning stage lmao. That's a major contradiction sir.
Viper totally annihilates MK's early game farm thus crippling him. MK's ult does zero damage without snowballing items. Do you even know how to play MK?
Check my dotabuff, MK is actually one of my main heroes.
Let me make it very clear for you.
1-MK can't kill supports if viper is stalking him 24/7.
2-MK can't lane at all if viper is in his lane.
3-An underfarmed MK will have zero impact in the game.
4-MK cannot kill supports that have good positioning.
5- I'm talking about high mmr games here btw, I'm 5.1k mmr and honestly i've never seen the scenario that you've portrayed at all. Most supports above 5k have insane positioning.
Dude like seriously I feel like we're not talking about the same game lmao.
all i'm reading is:
MK can run from viper, can viper catch mk's treehop?
other side of the story: he doesn't have to catch him, he just needs to ruin his farm.
yet at 500 mmr, all they do is rush rod of atos and go 10-0 against MK by 15min mark......
just ruin his farm? pssh viper melts him so fast it's redic
^ and that's pretty meta in herald bracket.
has no one 3k+ seriously never considered rod of atos on viper???? =.=;