Nobody plays support anymore, this patch is terrible

[8-Bit Ears]

Between fast queue and wards being free, literally every game the supports just pick and play as carries.

90% of the people supporting now are only playing the support to get fast queue tickets, and dont care about their support mmr. They dont actually support and pick stupid ♥♥♥♥ like weaver hard support then sit in the jungle trying to get all the creep items. They dont care if they win or lose they are only there for the fast queue tickets.

Especially now that wards are free, supports just act like they dont have to actually support anymore.

[Absche]

It‘s another indirect effect from the ranked roles update.

[Zagryzaec]

Messaggio originale di Free Hong Kong!!:

I would play supp but i stepped away from dota till this patch is gone. Neutral items are cancer and i wont give this game, whatever it is now, any time.

Also taking a break untill most stupid things are fixed. Guess many other sups do the same.

[JouYizz]

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Messaggio originale di Lady Mint:

Not really, the freed up gold allows them to get utility items faster.

No because their couriers walk 275 speed untill min 8-9 and every time they killed you lose your passive gold income. Basically your only gold income.

Messaggio originale di JouYizz:

i think youre misunderstanding how supporting works... the free wards greatly benefit pos4 and pos5 players because it would mean more money for sustain items for your cores during the laning phase and that would also equate to faster supportive items in mid game to late game.... also... supporting isnt limited to just spamming wards

I think YOU misunderstand how support works. Wards were never an issue during laning stage. Are sentry wards free now?

Faster support items means nothing if cores get their items/levels faster and free too. It's even worse.

Messaggio originale di pelitunnus03:

I actually started playing supp in this patch, and it resulted in a very nice win rate, if nobody does it, you should do it.. ez mmr. just too bad for your core mmr, but atleast your supp mmr will go up

Playing as support is easier now than it ever was, all items give stats, so as a support you are more tankier than you ever was, have more attributes and damage than you ever had, this patch is made to balance the gap between supps and cores and it works like magic, i my self started to play cm and its really op now..

You also get money from your dewards, free wards, and xp and gold from kills even if you are dead or far away. so being the supp is the thing in this patch and they made it so because 80% of players played core. so supp is the new core :D they balanced it :D

More attributes and more damage? What king of damage? What kind of nonsense is it? Supports are made to function without items. Carry is the ones who require items to fight. Getting faster easier items is serious buff to core players and another PUCK YOU to supports from icefrog. That's why nobody wants to play support nowadays.

1. sentry wards isnt free but dewarding obs still give money and thus became more profitable hence its still the supports job to still maintain vision advantage

2. you seem to be underestimating how supportive items like force staffs or rod of atos or glimmer capes that get bought around early-mid game... it could still be the determining factor that could save a core or lock down an enemy

3. isnt supporting more impactful now because you could actually choose to do a mix of both supportive and damage dealing items because as you said getting items are easier now for the cores and thus the support could adapt to which item would best suit the team's momentum.... however the decision is still dependent on the circumstance of the game

4. with the aforementioned.. how supports function now compared to before is still the same fundamentally... the new patch lessened the expenditure factor... on how you make use of this feature is entirely up to you

5. if support heroes are entirely useless as you claim to be.. then why are they still getting picked in pro games as a fundamental part of the team

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Eh, I still stomp face as a support player. With the changes to Ring of Basilius, Headdress, and Buckler (namely, more allstats at a lower price), I've been buying those items instead of Magic Wand, and building them into the new aura items. In particular, my favorite item ever, Veil of Discord, now has a much better buildup (Ring of Basi into Crown), making it far more feasible to rush it.

[Zagryzaec]

1. Since you didn't get it, the idea is in laning phase you can see gank not by putting vision all over the map, but by seeing support or mider out of his lane. The sentry in lane I mentioned are not for dewarding but for playing against invisers like Weaver and clinkz. At least tree and Riki is no longer require it. The point is - change doesn't affect supports due to fact you usually didn't need observers in lane, but needed sentries sometimes. You still don't need observers and sentries still cost money. Sups financial conditions only became worse. Especially with passive income now somehow tied to courier. Why the hell even do this.

As for vision advantage - let the courier plant wards.

2. I have enough expirience to know that in practice they are utterly useless above 1500 k. You can use glimmer once. Then every normal player bring dust.

3. You don't seem to understand concept of support character. It's the char that need no item. However the more items everyone have the less damage support do. You can get as much damage item you want, then you just can't finish enemy core due to him having too much stats for your nuke, then he jump you and heal with lifesteal. And if you control type you don't even care for damage.

4. Fundamentally yes. Practically no.

5. It's not about useless. It's about pucked up with every update. It's not like I won't be able to win game for my team. It's about constantly making it less and less enjoyable to play. For example explain to me why it is nessesary for sups courier to be vulnerable while carries one already flying? Is stacking, pulling, zoning, harrasing, dealing one vs two offlaners, warding and so on is too few of objectives? Why give farming heroes even more gold and stuff, while taking away from supports that few things they had before?

[LeeSuperman]

I play Huskar support becouse my carrys are weak to win games

[JouYizz]

1. this is out of topic but you dont actually need obs to know when someone is missing from a lane... all you have to do is read the chat from your team mate that a hero is missing from their lane... and you could make an educated guess on what they could possibly do

with regard to the passive income being tied to the courier -in general isnt this beneficial for more beneficial for the team because if only 1 hero loses his courier then he alone suffers the consequences of it? then just be mindful of where you send it to right?

2.again out of topic but wouldnt you at least be expecting a counter move from the enemy that they would somehow react accordingly to these nuances? if getting detected is the issue then just use the glimmer for magic resistance bonus or as an initiating or ganking tool right depending on what the situation demands

my point is isnt supportive items supposed to be for the team's convenience or for reactionary purposes and it has always been this way since time immemorial right?

3. i agree that the a supportive character is supposed to be cost efficient but not to the point that the character should be scaling even without the necessary items.. cause that would defeat the purpose of getting a lead

4. welp cant argue with that

5. with regard to the courier... which do you prefer... your items(any item for that matter) having the potential to be undelivered to you because youre giving preference of usage to your cores (and dont tell me youve never experienced this before) or having a personal albeit slow moving one that you could call anytime... call it unfair compared to the cores but thats already a convenience for me... and honestly how hard is it to get to level 5 for the courier be flying for it to be such a major inconvenience

with regard to Why give farming heroes even more gold and stuff - supports arent supposed to be the star of the game theyre supposed to help the cores win the game cause if that was the case then why build build a core-centric team in the first place if the hierarchy isnt reinforced

[Absche]

In my opinion, ranked roles update was bad for supports but outlanders patch is ok.

[hrooza]

Messaggio originale di Sgt. Sarge:

Why would you pick a hero that cant defend himself solo, when by 5 minutes the game is just huge 5v5 brawls like its some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death match game. I've just uninstalled, this is literally the worst iteration of dota i've ever played since dota 1, and by golly gosh, its going to stay this way because of all the rbain dead ♥♥♥♥♥ lickaing valves nuts.

They went and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up but everyones worshipping them. PM me in 6 months, when dota is literally dead. This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid.

support are the one who is strong the first 5 min lmao

you can try support spec/pa/lancer/sniper and see how far you can [defend] your self solo

[Zagryzaec]

1. That's exactly what I was talking about. Free wards don't free up any gold in laning stage beyond the very starting gold.

It's isn't beneficial to the team due to changes of courier mechanic, and it make DotA lose an important strategic component, where pressuring one lane hard make advantage for other lanes due to not being possible to just ferry tons of salves/mangos. It also made harrassment possible, and damage supports relevant. Because ALL couldn't just bring salve and we're have to wait for courier. In a true team game there should not be "I don't give a damn about my teammate his probl shouldn't concern me". DotA always worked exactly opposite.

2. My reasoning is that PRACTICALLY they show themselves useless above 1500 k and below I don't know how high. How many times you won games with glimmer? In my 4-5 k of games I haven't ever. You know how many games I won with hex? Tons of them. It's not like I don't want to get glimmer, force, moc. It's that I cannot allow them if I want to bring my team to victory. Supports items supposed to be cheap and effective, but unless against tinker glimmer is useless and only sups item finding often use reliably is ghost.

I want to glimmer my teammates, he either dusted or attack. I want to force my teammate he look toward enemy. I throw moc on my core - he run like a headless chicken and dies without making a single hit.

3. You don't accumulate resourses yourself. You accomulate them in your cores and with it your stuns become more effective, as your cores can deal more damage in same time.
It's not about two ng a lead or having more gold. It's about bieng stronger than your opponent, be able to make impact in game. Stats meta hit supports hard enough already. And now they keep hammering them with new nerfs.

Sometimes it's important to just not allow enemy spectre to farm her radience, not get radiance on your lich, if you get my point.

4. I mean before lich could take away about third of hp from some core in one nuke. Then only a quarter. Now not even a tenth. You think nothing changed for him? While technically his nukes deal same amount of damage. Technically he still trying to harass his opponent. The problem is - his opponent no longer cares. You cannot win early as reliable as before, and lich that have no lead is pretty useless.

5. I somehow could just wait untill my carry bring his items and brought mine AT THE SAME TIME as all normal players would. And it was flying from min 3 always. Even when I was have to pay for it. I prefer have ng ability for courier to do what it's supposed to do. Bring my items and not distracting me from fighting offlane duo.

If you are good support you give AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE of your exp to core, so he could stand solo as soon as possible so you could roam the map and he get solo exp farm. That means that you will deliberately must give up level early. That means that you get lvl 6 from book on min10, and level 5 not long before it. Walking courier with that speed is a spit in a sups face.

As for roles - THERE IS NO STARS, ITS A TEAM GAME. there is no hierarchy, there is farm priority. What kind of idiot made the idea that there should be lower cast if players or higher cast? All players are equal. And supposed to make impact in the game. All those stars, solocarry and farmers are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

As a matter of fact usually it's supports that win games for their teams, not carries. Although it may be connected with the fact that they are just highest rating in the team and carry usually lowest.

[76561198071757061]

plz any advice for a real game ?

[:D]

just had a 17-5-27 score as Pos 5 :) gl hf