Why no vanguard Spectre ?

[Charteuse Gale]

Lately i was watching the meta and live replay of every top ranked immortal players who play Spectre

most of them skip radience, and go pt-aquila-magic stick- stout and then rush to manta-diffu and go to tarasque or abysal and butterfly in late game. They rarely make bm seeing it was quite normal because they did not make any hp item like vanguard or such.

the most weird thing is that, without any sustainbility or regen, they can't hold up in the lane , you can say they can buy tango or healing salve , but the courier usually been used by allies and the delivering is quite took some time from the base to your location. Most of them easily zone up , and Spectre can't jungle with no regen items. The most weird thing is their allies rarely help and roaming to top/mid(they only help if the enemy dive and go mass 1-2 man tp).

i have try vanguard, and it seems even though it delaying her core items like manta or radience, it gives her the ability to stay in the lane, also you will be harder to kill in the gank and even can survive it , the damage block and hp + hp regen is truly amazing. And you can safely farm to lane or jungle because vanguard regen is quite big for you to not go to base, 1 minute can give you over 360 hp with 6 hp regen and you can even farm jungle without worry if you afraid farming in the lane to recover your hp).


And with vanguard you can go bm route, after that either choice you can go radience or manta.

Vanguard also not a dead end item because abysal blade was one of great items on her after manta, basically you just make your life easier when vanguard help you both in early and late game,.

[CEO of Autism]

I build vanguard into blademail in all my spec game.it gives you a lot of sustain and you can join teamfight earlier

[Fallen Devil]

its mainly depends on the enemies line up and ur team line up, for example againts ursa u wont go for bm. againts necro u wont go for tarrass. radi build is strong but againts enemies who do hit and run(which is means they are mostly outside ur radiance range), manta diffu much better, radi might be usefull if ur team also have strong aoe nukers. and why manta instead of vanguard? againts range heroes, the closer u can get the better ur spec 3rd skill effect which is manta can help u on such things. movement speed also dogding capabilites, debuff etc. just my own opinion

[herald till i die]

vanguard is stupid on spec

[DildoBaggins]

2k gold for 250 hp :D

[Charteuse Gale]

Originally posted by asdqwr:

vanguard is stupid on spec

Well to be honest that was the only effective sustainbility item on spectre , mask of madness seems good on paper but it just make her more squishy. I also tried dominator but to be honest it was more expensive that vanguard. The most close item that can give her sustain/regen was hood, but it was to situational if the enemy have full magic line up like zeus and others.

In the past it was urn but the haunt cd nerf hurt a lot and people abandoning urn because you can only join a far away team fight every 180 seconds, and getting urn is a bad idea if your team have a roamer that make urn as their core like pudge or bh.

I fully understand vanguard is'nt that great, but as i can say, there is no other item that suits her and give her hp and regen. Other carry have it easier because most of ranged hero usually won't get easily harrased and other mele carry have ability to sustain like jugg healing ward, or am that make bf(perseverence) that gives him regen, or buying morbid mask on luna , and many others.

Spectre saving grace was by having lvl 10 and get +5 hp regen talent, i think most pros decided to hold out till she got lvl 10 and take that talent.

[Charteuse Gale]

Originally posted by Salvation:

2k gold for 250 hp :D

well the damage block and hp regen also helps alot

250 hp really make differences with life or death, and the 70 damage block was really good at where most hero have only 80-100 damage in early game, but mostly vanguard help a lot when she was jungling, most of time without vanguard, the creep damaged me from 50-100 hp in 1 camp, no way i can farm 2-3 camps if i took that many damage at early game. Of course she was'nt made to jungle , that was the situational case where all lane was pushed or you are afraid of getting ganked in the lane and nobody can help you,

I remember with pt str and vanguard i managed to survived full combo of tiny toss-avalanche and clinkz at lvl 9, if i don't have vanguard, i am sure i will dead.

[Yakult]

Imagine u have desolate with manta on their solo target during engage. That dmg is massive, I Guess that build is focus more on mid game spectre. If u go rad then u will probably get gank by the enemy team

[yor]

1

[-Songsong GoDota2.com]

lowl meta bois.
go play league of losers

[Charteuse Gale]

Originally posted by Grandmother:

Imagine u have desolate with manta on their solo target during engage. That dmg is massive, I Guess that build is focus more on mid game spectre. If u go rad then u will probably get gank by the enemy team

ah yes, it seems they decided to rush manta by getting pt-aquila-stout-magic stick then go manta-diffu rather than saving rad. i think farming hero by having manta is more good than saving rad.