Still not digging the new tiny.

[Magikabula]

Tiny was one of my favorite heroes, but his armor and attack speed nerf really destroyed the way I play him. I've tried a new build with Aeon Disk, and even against bots, he still gets destroyed by Stuns, slows and physical damage. He can't even soft counter melee heroes with craggy exterior, making PA kind of a ♥♥♥♥♥ against him once she gets BKB.

I do kind of like the tree grab ability flavor wise, but it hasn't been working out nearly as well for me as the old Aghs did mechanically. Are there any fellow Tony fans out there who have had success with him in 7.07? Should I just resign myself to the blink dagger ganker route as the only way to play him and not expect to carry late game anymore?

[TrackZero]

Not just you. It really kind of sucks that my fav hero now feels unplayable. I don't know what they were thinking.

[hrooza]

its a big rework so i recommend you to forget the old tiny

anyway ppl tend to max tree grap early now and carry with it

you can check some high mmr players on dota buff and their build to get an idea of how to use the new tiny

[Magikabula]

Originally posted by hrooza07:

its a big rework so i recommend you to forget the old tiny

NEVER FORGET!!!!

Originally posted by hrooza07:

anyway ppl tend to max tree grap early now and carry with it

"Hi players! Having fun playing dota? Who you playing? Tiny? Building into Avalanche/Toss with Blink? Is it fun? Yeah? WELL TOO BAD! Now you build tree grab tiny, and you're gonna like it!"

Originally posted by hrooza07:

you can check some high mmr players on dota buff and their build to get an idea of how to use the new tiny

I'll see what I can find.

[hrooza]

Originally posted by Magikabula:

Originally posted by hrooza07:

its a big rework so i recommend you to forget the old tiny

NEVER FORGET!!!!

Originally posted by hrooza07:

anyway ppl tend to max tree grap early now and carry with it

"Hi players! Having fun playing dota? Who you playing? Tiny? Building into Avalanche/Toss with Blink? Is it fun? Yeah? WELL TOO BAD! Now you build tree grab tiny, and you're gonna like it!"

Originally posted by hrooza07:

you can check some high mmr players on dota buff and their build to get an idea of how to use the new tiny

I'll see what I can find.

haha if you still want to go avalanche/toss then go for it im pretty sure it still work (not as much though :P)

but try maxing tree grab and see how it goes

[Ponas]

never forget our only Skeleton King :)

[Magikabula]

Originally posted by Xeon:

never forget our only Skeleton King :)

Grind me to powder, and even THEN I shall return...

Originally posted by hrooza07:

haha if you still want to go avalanche/toss then go for it im pretty sure it still work (not as much though :P)

but try maxing tree grab and see how it goes

I usually do okay until later in the game after tree grab is already skilled. What I really need is a good item build to help me get my late game somewhere like I used to be back in the day.

[mZ]

Actually, I love this new rework, but it's a little too overkill to make him lose his one and only defensive skill, not only that Tiny has no Agility, Grow loses it's Aghanim's upgrade ability, it also doesn't increase your Toss damage anymore.

I mean, sure Avalanche + Toss is still in the meta but removing his only defensive skill is making him an easy target for right-clickers.

And for the new Tree Grab skill, it's quite useful. Since Tiny could get a free scepter ability that does 50% more damage to towers/buildings, it is pretty easy to push with tiny's new Tree grab ability.

[Duchess Minty]

he can still ava toss squishy heroes into oblivion though

[zarse]

He's got 57% winrate on +5k MMR brackets

Go ahead and check it out, you'll see I'm not full of s h i t.

(It's probably due to him being an early ganker with more nukes now and the free Aghs at level 13 / 14 if he wants to farm out another initiation item like SB after the dagger).

[Magikabula]

Do you have a good go to armor item for him? I used to go AC but it doesn't feel as good anymore. Or do you just pretend that armor is for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and go in naked like a Celtic warrior?

[mZ]

Originally posted by Magikabula:

Do you have a good go to armor item for him? I used to go AC but it doesn't feel as good anymore. Or do you just pretend that armor is for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and go in naked like a Celtic warrior?

Assault Cuirass on Tiny is still good, but if you decided to go support-mode you should get Shiva's

[sweater boy]

Well he just got reworked AGAIN. Growth gives armor instead of MS now for example.

[Magikabula]

...And then they nerf his damage.
Jesus Christ... They really want to push tree grab on us. I get that they want people to give it a try but... This is painful. Every patch he trades two nerfs for one buff, at least to the way I liked playing him. He lost armor and attack speed and a reverse bash in exchange for a cheaper, slightly worse aghs and status resistance. Then he lost damage and move speed in exchange for armor.

Fine, Icefraud. I'll try your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tree grab build!

[zarse]

I suppose Tree grab is legit for laning and early harass (given that Tiny has jack of those) and Echo Sabre is almost core as well as dagger. Still though, you really can't play him as a core, and that really limits the amount of builds he can do right now.

[Magikabula]

Something that's been bothering me about his Ultimate as it stands now is that I've realized how boring it is conceptually if you think about it. Compared to 7.06 GROW, which traded attack speed for Movespeed, base damage, and toss damage, now you trade attack speed for armor, base damage, and status resistance.

Armor gives you effective HP. What else gives you effective HP? Strength.
What else gives you base damage if you're a strength hero? Strength.
What else gives you status resistance if you're a strength hero? Strength.

With some minor discrepencies, you could rework GROW to give Tiny bonus strength in exchange for attack speed, and it would be more or less the same. They won't do that, of course, because that would make it sound legitimately boring. Centaur's old Ult used to give him strength I think, and that was changed to be less boring. Still, that's what we have now: an ultimate that gives varying levels of stats that strength gives in exchange for attack speed.

Maybe I'm off base here, but isn't stuff like this kind of boring design wise? If you're going to have a passive as your ultimate, shouldn't that passive at the very least have huge numbers? PA has the biggest crit in the game as her ultimate(though it's still weaker at level 6 than a juggernaut can get at level 3), Drow has an Eblade's worth of agi from her ult if people don't get too close. Tiny still has decently high numbers on the stats that Grow gives, but unlike the other heroes, he has to sacrifice a different stat for that. Back when he got Movement speed, that was a fair trade. Now it just seems like a necessary evil to get some survivability on such a slow hero.