Nerf Bedlam

[Ryan]

Willows Bedlam is ABSURD

at level 3 Bedlam has a 4 second duration dealing 225 damage per tick in .25 second intervals

This means, 225 x 4 = 1 second of damage. Meaning Willow's Bedlam deals 900 damage per second, calclulating the 4 second duration means against a single target. Willow can effectively deal 3600 damage. On a 20 second cooldown.

EDIT: Perhaps make it so Bedlam can only attack a single enemy 2 - 3 - 4 times (Similar to Luna's Eclipse) And make an aghs that removes the limit.

[WTBacon]

Silence?

[Deepbluediver]

DW may be nerfed at some point, but you can't just look at a single ability- you have to look at the hero as a whole.

Yes it deals a lot of damage, but she also is a squishy hero who has to be right next to you for it to deal all that damage. It's kind of like CM's ult that way.

[Duchess Minty]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

It's kind of like CM's ult that way.

I'd compare it more to eclipse since the more things grouped up the worse it is.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by The_Technomancer:

If we're looking at more than one ability let's not forget DW's 3.5 second stun that allows her to get close to you, or her long range 360+attack damage nuke in case you survive.

And yet her winrate is STILL below 50% on dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/dark-willow

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

Originally posted by The_Technomancer:

If we're looking at more than one ability let's not forget DW's 3.5 second stun that allows her to get close to you, or her long range 360+attack damage nuke in case you survive.

And yet her winrate is STILL below 50% on dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/dark-willow

I never said she was OP, you'll notice the title of the thread is nerf BEDLAM. I'm saying her one ability is overpowered not the hero in it's entirety.

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

DW may be nerfed at some point, but you can't just look at a single ability- you have to look at the hero as a whole.

Yes it deals a lot of damage, but she also is a squishy hero who has to be right next to you for it to deal all that damage. It's kind of like CM's ult that way.

Well looking at it from that angle. She has around 6 seconds of lockdown (Potentially more if an opponent is dumb enough to walk into more of her roots) she has an ability that renders her untargetable, Which bear in mind. She can use while Bedlam is active and has a longer duration than Bedlam meaning she can be untargetable/hittable for the entirety of Bedlam. Have fun trying to kill her exclusively with aoe spells.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by Panah:

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

And yet her winrate is STILL below 50% on dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/dark-willow

I never said she was OP, you'll notice the title of the thread is nerf BEDLAM. I'm saying her one ability is overpowered not the hero in it's entirety.

Alright, then if the hero isn't OP, what are you going to buff to compensate for the nerf to her ultimate?

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

Originally posted by Panah:

I never said she was OP, you'll notice the title of the thread is nerf BEDLAM. I'm saying her one ability is overpowered not the hero in it's entirety.

Alright, then if the hero isn't OP, what are you going to buff to compensate for the nerf to her ultimate?

Originally posted by Panah:

EDIT: Perhaps make it so Bedlam can only attack a single enemy 2 - 3 - 4 times (Similar to Luna's Eclipse) And make an aghs that removes the limit.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by Panah:

Perhaps make it so Bedlam can only attack a single enemy 2 - 3 - 4 times (Similar to Luna's Eclipse) And make an aghs that removes the limit.

So you don't think the hero is OP, but you do think she needs a nerf, with Agh's being required to get back to where she is now.

How does that make sense?

[Mind Bullets]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

Originally posted by The_Technomancer:

If we're looking at more than one ability let's not forget DW's 3.5 second stun that allows her to get close to you, or her long range 360+attack damage nuke in case you survive.

And yet her winrate is STILL below 50% on dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/dark-willow

This is utterly meaningless for new heroes. Monkey King debuted with a %50 winrate when he was so broken that Jingu lifesteal ignored armour. He wasn't just fixed, but consistently nerfed after that.

The fact that this hero has an actual positive winrate at 5k+ possibly means she's reaaaaally broken (possibly not too). Remember, this is an all new hero, and in the hands of skilled players she's able to win more often than not against players who have literally thousands of games with the hero they're pitting against her.

Personally, I think the hero is a bit OP. She should and will be nerfed.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by Mind Bullets:

This is utterly meaningless for new heroes. Monkey King debuted with a %50 winrate when he was so broken that Jingu lifesteal ignored armour. He wasn't just fixed, but consistently nerfed after that.

The fact that this hero has an actual positive winrate at 5k+ possibly means she's reaaaaally broken (possibly not too). Remember, this is an all new hero, and in the hands of skilled players she's able to win more often than not against players who have literally thousands of games with the hero they're pitting against her.

Personally, I think the hero is a bit OP. She should and will be nerfed.

Alright, maybe she will be nerfed- personally I just think it's a little early to call. As people get more used to playing her, so too will people get more used to countering her. And even in the 5k+ bracket, she's somewhere around 19th as far as winrates go.
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta

[Magikabula]

Originally posted by Mind Bullets:

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

And yet her winrate is STILL below 50% on dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/dark-willow

This is utterly meaningless for new heroes. Monkey King debuted with a %50 winrate when he was so broken that Jingu lifesteal ignored armour. He wasn't just fixed, but consistently nerfed after that.

The fact that this hero has an actual positive winrate at 5k+ possibly means she's reaaaaally broken (possibly not too). Remember, this is an all new hero, and in the hands of skilled players she's able to win more often than not against players who have literally thousands of games with the hero they're pitting against her.

Personally, I think the hero is a bit OP. She should and will be nerfed.

I'm inclined to agree. She has tons of lockdown and damage with a semi-escape in her Shadow realm.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

Originally posted by Panah:

Perhaps make it so Bedlam can only attack a single enemy 2 - 3 - 4 times (Similar to Luna's Eclipse) And make an aghs that removes the limit.

So you don't think the hero is OP, but you do think she needs a nerf, with Agh's being required to get back to where she is now.

How does that make sense?

Are you telling me that gimping a heros ability, and forcing them to have to invest 4200 gold in a core item they wouldn't otherwise get isn't a nerf?

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by Panah:

Are you telling me that gimping a heros ability, and forcing them to have to invest 4200 gold in a core item they wouldn't otherwise get isn't a nerf?

Yes it IS a nerf- that's what I'm saying. You seem to be claiming that DW isn't OP, but that she needs a nerf anyway, which is what I don't get.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

Originally posted by Panah:

Are you telling me that gimping a heros ability, and forcing them to have to invest 4200 gold in a core item they wouldn't otherwise get isn't a nerf?

Yes it IS a nerf- that's what I'm saying. You seem to be claiming that DW isn't OP, but that she needs a nerf anyway, which is what I don't get.

I'm saying BEDLAM needs a nerf, the ABILITY needs to be nerfed NOT Dark Willow.

Originally posted by Panah:

I never said she was OP, you'll notice the title of the thread is nerf BEDLAM.

Originally posted by Panah:

I'm saying her one ability is overpowered not the hero in it's entirety.

Originally posted by Panah:

Willows Bedlam is ABSURD

How many times do I have to say this.

EDIT: But if we're going to do these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ semantics then yes, I suppose a logical throughline could be established where you could say something along the lines of "A hero is their abilities" and in that case yes I am suggesting we nerf Willow. However, I'm still only suggesting her Bedlam is broken, not the hero fundamentally.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by Panah:

I'm saying BEDLAM needs a nerf, the ABILITY needs to be nerfed NOT Dark Willow.

You can't nerf the ability without nerfing the hero it's attached to- that's the definition of what a nerf is. Saying you'd let her have the old ability back with Scepter is STILL a nerf.