Would appreciate some tips about proper farming [answered]

[Toeli]

Hello!

First of all, by no means I'm a good player, in fact, I'm 1k trash tier. So, please keep that in mind when looking at the game.
https://de.dotabuff.com/matches/3221055705

Yesterday I played a game as Chaos Knight. We won without much effort, but after the game I noticed that their Wraith King had around 10k gold more than I did.
I personally think that I had a good laning phase and that I was able to farm rather well, so I wonder why I had such a bad game going on ultimately.
Maybe some of you could tell me more about that.

Lots of times I think that many problems in my game result from me being unable to farm properly, so I'd appreciate it if some of you could give me a little advice on how to farm efficiently.

Thanks in advance!

-Toeli

[Toeli]

Storm Sniper původně napsal:

Ganking slows down the enemy farm, so even if you lose exp, they'll probably lose even more. Say a gank fails and you don 't get the kill, you still can come out ahead if the enemy has to leave the lane to regen. Sometimes it's even worse since early you have a quick respawn and going all the way back can take significantly longer.

Hm, that is true. Seems like I fail to see lots of opportunities. Nothing worse than being forced to go back to base.

Ihza 👁👁 původně napsal:

don't forget to activate armlete before use your illu, and your illu will become so great

and about going to jungle, i'll do it if there is no enemy in sight so i'll go to jungle and use manta to farm on lane so you'll get fast money and push the lane

Yeah, that sounds like a good thing to do. I think I did not realize how beneficial Manta Style actually is to my farming.
I skipped it mainly due to the reason that it has rather high Mana Costs and I usually don't surpass the 600 Mana Treshold without additional INT (which I would get with Manta though).

[BlueLobster]

Storm Sniper původně napsal:

Toeli,

Iron Talon, Medallion, Battlefury are good for farming. If you have blademail, you can also activate it in the camps and it returns their damage so they die quicker. Tranquil boots are good too. Just make sure you have good warding by the camps. Unless they changed it, you can drop you tranquil boots while clearing the camp, pick them up afterwards, then you regen right away without the time penalty.

Iron talon is the only of those that I would buy on CK specifically, maybe medallion but a talon is nice if you are forced out of your lane and have to jungle.

[chup chup]

BlueLobster původně napsal:

If you are the carry on your team and you have a lane to reliably farm then you don't normally have a reason to leave it. Keep a TP scroll to get away from ganks or tp in to help a teammate getting dove under tower, other than that just farm.
If you are in a lane where you can't farm then try to leech exp, if you get a level advantage then you can probably set up a kill or gank another lane. Also try to farm jungle when the creeps are too far away from your tower, just killing the easy camp while the creeps are far away and go back when they push into your tower will increase the gold/exp you get.

or pull the camp so the enemy didn't get xp and gold and the enemy creep will go near his tower

[Myst?c]

both of those heros lack a proper farming ability (wk has the advantage of consistent life steal though, so he has a slight edge)
naga who can make illusions that can use her riptide are great for farming, and once she gets radiance its even better
antimage who has blink can get around the map from creep camp to creep camp and lane and get decent farm (battle fury needed to take full advantage so hes not low all the time)
ck just kinda lacks anything that will allow him to consistently farm, my rule of thumb is if im not on the way to a fight, take any farm im about to walk past

[Toeli]

Storm Sniper původně napsal:

Toeli,

Iron Talon, Medallion, Battlefury are good for farming. If you have blademail, you can also activate it in the camps and it returns their damage so they die quicker. Tranquil boots are good too. Just make sure you have good warding by the camps. Unless they changed it, you can drop you tranquil boots while clearing the camp, pick them up afterwards, then you regen right away without the time penalty.

Thanks for stating that! Iron Talon is probably a good idea. I'd probably be able to get it early as well with taking the Bounty Rune.

BlueLobster původně napsal:

If you are the carry on your team and you have a lane to reliably farm then you don't normally have a reason to leave it. Keep a TP scroll to get away from ganks or tp in to help a teammate getting dove under tower, other than that just farm.
If you are in a lane where you can't farm then try to leech exp, if you get a level advantage then you can probably set up a kill or gank another lane. Also try to farm jungle when the creeps are too far away from your tower, just killing the easy camp while the creeps are far away and go back when they push into your tower will increase the gold/exp you get.

Yeah, I usually carry a TP with me, but I like to get them past the 10 minutes because I'm trying to get my early items as soon as possible. Maybe I should pay attention to enemy line-ups that are gank-heavy, with roamers like BH or Nyx Assassin.

So, when the creeps push past the River, I ask my support to ward the River so I'm more or less able to see enemies passing it and farm the Jungle camps (the easy ones during the early stages of the game) until they are closer to my tower again. Then I push them back and repeat?

[Toeli]

DI blaster56745 původně napsal:

both of those heros lack a proper farming ability (wk has the advantage of consistent life steal though, so he has a slight edge)
naga who can make illusions that can use her riptide are great for farming, and once she gets radiance its even better
antimage who has blink can get around the map from creep camp to creep camp and lane and get decent farm (battle fury needed to take full advantage so hes not low all the time)
ck just kinda lacks anything that will allow him to consistently farm, my rule of thumb is if im not on the way to a fight, take any farm im about to walk past

So, as CK I should focus on participating in as many fights as possible and while I'm traversing the map I take jungle camps along the way? Basically, farm the lane, dive into the jungle while the lane is pushed out, support lanes that are in need of help and return to my lane once the fight is over while taking all the camps I'm able to clear along the way?

[BlueLobster]

"So, when the creeps push past the River, I ask my support to ward the River so I'm more or less able to see enemies passing it and farm the Jungle camps (the easy ones during the early stages of the game) until they are closer to my tower again. Then I push them back and repeat?"
Yes this is an easy way to increase your farm in early to midgame.
Also I do suggest having a tp at 4-5 mins or so at the latest, I generally get my first tp after brown boots.

[pip]

For carry like CK, the best way to farm faster imo is you always have tp, when u have a free lane stay in there, if they want to gank you, rotate to other lane with tp, tp to some fight that nearly end where enemy already has low health, u cant farm jungle very fast so your best option is changing lane to a free lane and killing low health enemy with ur calling skill.
Battlefury isnt a good choice for CK because CK is a singe enemy killer, even can kill some tankiest hero with your ss+manta+crit in 1 call, imo the best item route for CK is bracer, boots of speed, armlet of mordiggian, manta, bkb, tarras,boots ---> travel boots.
Because CK is very strong with his phantasm, i recommend that you dont go war in front, especially when you play against enemy that can wipe your phantasm easily like earthshaker, invoker, LC, and others hero that have area skills, so you just wait and watch the fight first, when they already used their (maybe) half of their skill, you go in. Im not a good player too, but a skill that every player could use that i learn from every pro player is, you can move your camera to look to others site and place, not just to center it to your hero, even sumail dodge disruptor glimpse because he follows the glimpse orb by moving his camera and use sleight of fist in perfect time. Hope it can help you.

[chup chup]

twitch.tv/Fridchan původně napsal:

For carry like CK, the best way to farm faster imo is you always have tp, when u have a free lane stay in there, if they want to gank you, rotate to other lane with tp, tp to some fight that nearly end where enemy already has low health, u cant farm jungle very fast so your best option is changing lane to a free lane and killing low health enemy with ur calling skill.
Battlefury isnt a good choice for CK because CK is a singe enemy killer, even can kill some tankiest hero with your ss+manta+crit in 1 call, imo the best item route for CK is bracer, boots of speed, armlet of mordiggian, manta, bkb, tarras,boots ---> travel boots.
Because CK is very strong with his phantasm, i recommend that you dont go war in front, especially when you play against enemy that can wipe your phantasm easily like earthshaker, invoker, LC, and others hero that have area skills, so you just wait and watch the fight first, when they already used their (maybe) half of their skill, you go in. Im not a good player too, but a skill that every player could use that i learn from every pro player is, you can move your camera to look to others site and place, not just to center it to your hero, even sumail dodge disruptor glimpse because he follows the glimpse orb by moving his camera and use sleight of fist in perfect time. Hope it can help you.

I think its not just ck but other carry hero would be better to go into free lane to get some core item at least got armlete for ck and get a good gpm xpm and faster item

[Toeli]

BlueLobster původně napsal:

"So, when the creeps push past the River, I ask my support to ward the River so I'm more or less able to see enemies passing it and farm the Jungle camps (the easy ones during the early stages of the game) until they are closer to my tower again. Then I push them back and repeat?"
Yes this is an easy way to increase your farm in early to midgame.
Also I do suggest having a tp at 4-5 mins or so at the latest, I generally get my first tp after brown boots.

Thanks, will keep that in mind!

twitch.tv/Fridchan původně napsal:

For carry like CK, the best way to farm faster imo is you always have tp, when u have a free lane stay in there, if they want to gank you, rotate to other lane with tp, tp to some fight that nearly end where enemy already has low health, u cant farm jungle very fast so your best option is changing lane to a free lane and killing low health enemy with ur calling skill.
Battlefury isnt a good choice for CK because CK is a singe enemy killer, even can kill some tankiest hero with your ss+manta+crit in 1 call, imo the best item route for CK is bracer, boots of speed, armlet of mordiggian, manta, bkb, tarras,boots ---> travel boots.
Because CK is very strong with his phantasm, i recommend that you dont go war in front, especially when you play against enemy that can wipe your phantasm easily like earthshaker, invoker, LC, and others hero that have area skills, so you just wait and watch the fight first, when they already used their (maybe) half of their skill, you go in. Im not a good player too, but a skill that every player could use that i learn from every pro player is, you can move your camera to look to others site and place, not just to center it to your hero, even sumail dodge disruptor glimpse because he follows the glimpse orb by moving his camera and use sleight of fist in perfect time. Hope it can help you.

So you suggest that I clean up the scattered remains of the enemies after hlaf of the teamfight happened already? Isn't that a bit risky as my team lacks a decent amount of damage during the teamfight?
Not that I'd know, just curious.

About the camera, I do not center my camera. I seldom look at my teammates' lane though unless I see something important going on, like a teamfight that is about to build up.

[Toeli]

Ihza 👁👁 původně napsal:

I think its not just ck but other carry hero would be better to go into free lane to get some core item at least got armlete for ck and get a good gpm xpm and faster item

Could you explain that a little bit further?

[Toeli]

Thank you everyone for helping by the way! I really appreciate your input, helps me a lot.

[chup chup]

Toeli původně napsal:

Ihza 👁👁 původně napsal:

I think its not just ck but other carry hero would be better to go into free lane to get some core item at least got armlete for ck and get a good gpm xpm and faster item

Could you explain that a little bit further?

if you watch pro players play as carry they take some farm and he didn't go in teamfight if all their teammate can win the teamfight without him, and sometimes he'll keep farming untill got some good item so when he go in teamfight his team will almostly win in every teamfight

[Psychotic Man]

Toeli původně napsal:

Psychotic Man původně napsal:

He farmed more mainly due to having battlefury in my opinion.

Though, he might have a better farming pattern than you as well.

CK isn't really great at farming, I mean you can get decent farm with almost any carry if you get last hitting down to perfection (I once saw a match where Forev was playing at 4k MMR on his smurf, as Tidehunter in offlane he easily managed to grab 114 last hits in around 14 minutes). As CK it's more about using your early game power to gank and grab a lot of kills, then transition that into a late game carry which is tanky and deals a ♥♥♥♥ ton of damage, which seeing from this game you did do to some decent extent.

Generally you can use Manta style to farm a lane while you farm jungle to accelerate your farm, but as CK you can't really expect to beat someone who has a battlefury or natural farming capabilities in farm.

One question about that. Whenever I play CK, during the laning phase I do not like to leave my lane as I think that going for a gank would result me in be getting less farm due to the fact that I'm missing one or two waves in the meantime.
Should I TP gank top/mid and farm the Jungle on my way back?

Haven't really played CK in a long time so can't exactly help you out about the current times, but as for what I used to do, I'll tell you.

Generally I'd try to score a few kills during laning phase. With a support who has burst or any lockdown, you can easily grab a kill when the opponent pushes towards your tower.

Hard Carry CK experiences a massive power spike at level 9 and 12 respectively when he gets access to ultimate (as a Hard Carry CK, you max Q and W first). An early game CK follows the more traditional leveling guide and experiences a power spike at level 6.

Basically, whenever your ultimate is ready, try to get into fights and take kills. When it isn't, avoid team fights and go for solo kills.

[Toeli]

Hm...
Alright, thank you for your help, guys! You all were really helpful.
I really appreciate it.

Have a nice day/evening/night!