Current weapon damage discussion - the good and the bad, thoughts welcomed

[Falandorn]

This is purely DM and TDM game modes so ignoring pricing and primary / secondary status of guns. I actually think these game modes should re-balance some of the gun performance for different modes to allow for variation but that is a whole other issue.

I took a break from Pavlov for about 6 months but recently got right back in to it, its still my #1 game in VR! I have over 100 hours played in it and really love the faster paced shooting.


I noticed some of the guns have been re-balanced and wanted to give my feedback and encourage anyone else to comment on it so it is reasoned.

The following will be a list of perfect balanced guns which in my opinion do not need changing, then some that need some attention and finally the awful ones that really struggle to compete. This list will not take in to consideration pricing or preferred slot main or secondary, just each gun on its own merits.

The good:

AK47 is the most devastating weapon in game, semi or burst it is fine. If you need to be competitive its my best choice.

AR15 as above is perfectly balanced, faster reload than above but suits individual needs.

Kar98 and AWP Sniper rifle are fine, no changes required.

Saiga-12 (fully auto shotgun) is brilliant, outshines the other shotguns but that is not its own fault, the others need pulling up to speed to be competitive.

M249 is perfect

Uzi - perfect

P90 - perfect

Glock 18 - perfect (steep curve to use but lethal in burst up-close)

Five-Seven - dreamy

Deagle - perfect

Revolver - perfect


The not-so-good:

Sawn-off is under-powered, you should destroy utterly anyone up close in 1 or 2 shots but this is a joke recently. This should be a terrifying weapon in CQC to balance its terrible performance beyond 20 feet and longer reload.

M590 Pump-action is underpowered given its long and tedious reload time, it should be more powerful than the semi-autos by about half again not just a few pellets. Give it armour piercing fletchets or something perhaps to make it worth using.

M1014 semi-auto shotgun is underpowered given the limited magazine and longer reload time as above. This could either use a stronger choke to let it reach out further or armor piercing fletchets.

MP5 is almost good, I think it should have laser-accuracy just like real life to give it an advantage over the P90 and Uzi which are far more versatile.

AUG needs fewer shots to kill. Its 3-shot burst is nice but you need 3 taps to kill most targets online. I think 5 bullets to kill should be perfect for this gun.

AK74U is nearly good, if you give it a 1-shot-kill to headshot like its rifle brother it would be hilariously fun in CQC - in danger of becoming best-in-slot with this change.


The terrible:

M1911 - what a travesty...the iconic weapon reduced to worst-in-slot. Please make this a definite 4 shot kill up close given its low capacity magazine

UMP-40...urgh this is a hard gun to love. Give it something to stand out, just a reason to use it other than picking it up by accident. Terrible damage and spread and everything about it. As I watch the bullets drop like none-hop-up airsoft pellets I feel sad. This should be brutal up close with its heavy rounds.


Well that's it I welcome criticism :)

A beautiful game that is already perfect this is just throwing out a few suggestions which I don't expect to be taken on, just wanted to comment. I appreciate you need a reason to spend more money in Search and Destroy and reward progress which is why I think weapon balance should be re-evaluated for different game modes.

TDM and DM would give greater variety if the changes above only took effect in those modes, there would be a greater pool of weapons to be good with. So far I find unless I am using the AK/M4 I need to work harder to remain top kills.

I can do well with the other weapons but anything not in the good group above takes a lot more work to get on with. Cheers!

[Cy_Op]

Guns won't be have different damage values based on game mode. Pretty much everything is getting tweaked in the next update.

This made me laugh SO hard!
The glock is so broken in the live build its not even funny

Originally posted by Falandorn:

Glock 18 - perfect (steep curve to use but lethal in burst up-close)

[Falandorn]

Im going to pop on the beta now and have a look.

Hey whats up with the Glock now? Its pretty much a guaranteed kill 1 v 1 in CQC if you unload it?

[Brainslug]

Exactly - nobody in comp uses any other sidearm (apart from the few deagle and revolver freaks)...
Glock is even better then the MP5... :D

[Cy_Op]

Its a pistol sized assault rifle

[Falandorn]

Ah I get you sorry i'm slow :O)

Who the hell was in charge of the new updates btw who gave feedback on it? I just tried it...

[Cy_Op]

What do you mean?

[Falandorn]

I mean it's the most perfectly polished update I have ever seen. Everything that made Pavlov slightly uncomfortable like the tracers being more effective than the iron-sights, the lack of attachments, the weird sound-effects, the lack of dynamic muzzle-flash...the list could go on.

The only downside was the game crashed twice in 20 minutes but it is already a completely new game, a much better game, that is incredible given just how beautiful Pavlov already was.

Whoever is at the helm is turning this into a flagship title for VR. Whose idea was that starting range with the knockdowns and mini-mission? All of it is perfect, the only thing that would top it off is more players than 5v5 but thats probably hardware rather than software right now.

[Cy_Op]

Dedicated servers and larger player counts are coming in the update. Dave is the developer and publisher. This is the first major update since he added a team of people to help him. The community in Discord is always giving valuable feedback to make the game what it is. The game wouldn't be anything like what it is without the community members that spend countless hours building maps and mods, discovering new ideas and ways to do things.

Its the game that keeps on growing!

[Brainslug]

What Cyrus said. :)

[Falandorn]

I would have been happy with just that moderator on the Deagle.. :)

Can't wait though, any news on the drop date for the new update?

[Cy_Op]

Originally posted by Falandorn:

I would have been happy with just that moderator on the Deagle.. :)

Can't wait though, any news on the drop date for the new update?

I would expect March sometime

[MastaOfDisasta]

P90 perfect? You made me laugh, I almost meet only P90 noobs nowadays. Tons of bullets in clip, guys killing through whole map, P90 smg needs to be really nerfed

[Falandorn]

Great news about March!

I understand the P90 is very good but I'm more of the impression it's just working as intended. It's not it's fault some of the other smgs are not competitive.

My idea was to give the UMP45 more punch and better accuracy for the MP5 to bring them up to speed.

This thread is kind of moot now though as it's been pointed out by Cyrus that most have been altered and tweaked in the next update.

[Falandorn]

Originally posted by Cyrus:

Originally posted by Falandorn:

I would have been happy with just that moderator on the Deagle.. :)

Can't wait though, any news on the drop date for the new update?

I would expect March sometime

Is it ok to mention features of the next update in current reviews? I wasn't sure if it was best not to mention it in case they change. I'm really hyped about the update though it feels like when an old retro game gets remade with the latest graphics but the core game play is still there.

[Brainslug]

I think it's ok. Just keep in mind that not everything that is in the beta will be in the update... Some things probably won't make it and will come with the update after that.