Improving weapon realism

[Jimmy]

Pavlov is a great time (possibly the best time in VR) and it seems steps have been taken to make weapons behave more realistically. This seems like a good thing to me but it looks like several weapons have behaviors that are super weird and inconsistent with the real thing. I'm definitely of the opinion that fun comes first and I'm more than willing to let games take some liberties if it better serves the game. I think in many of these cases though moving towards more realistic functions would be an overall improvement.

Additionally I'm not a weapons expert, I just really like guns so this list is surely not complete and if anyone else knows of something I missed I'd be delighted if you'd add it.

AUG
- Most importantly is the 2 stage progressive trigger for the AUG, pulling the trigger part way should be a semi shot, while a full length pull is full auto. There is no selector switch for that, it's just safe and not safe. This is one of the coolest features of the AUG and given that we have proper trigger in VR rather than just digital mouse clicks this can totally be implemented.
- The mag release is a button that exists near the magwell, you shouldn't be able to drop the mag without the use of your off hand.

P90
- This actually has a trigger that functions very similarly to the AUG, the P90 does however have a selector switch. It's just that when set to full auto it will have a 2 stage trigger. Also a super cool feature and something we can actually have access to given the nature of our controllers.

Charging handles (MP5, UMP, P90, AUG, G3)
- This one is one of the more obvious issues I see that is just super unrealistic. The charging handles on these weapons don't move when the weapon cycles (otherwise it'd be GG thumbs). I think a lot of games incorrectly do this as it gives additional visual feedback that the weapon is doing something but it's super incorrect and feels very wrong in VR. Of course this would mean that you'd have to be able to lock back the charging handles on empty weapons and reloading before doing so would mean you'd need to manually cycle the weapon (except the UMP which has a bolt catch//release). I can see a bit of an argument against this but I don't think adding this function would negatively impact the game at all.

Grips
- vertical and angled grips have only just been added so I'm not losing any sleep on this one at the moment, I do certainly hope that weapon models will either add mounting points for these attachments or prevent them from being attached. It's real weird to have that MP5SD front shroud with a vertical grip magically affixed to it.

M4
- Dust cover shouldn't be flapping open and closed with each shot. Should just stay open.

AK variants
- Fire selector not going in the correct positions. First position after safe should be auto and the lowest position should be semi.

Mini-Uzi
- Fire selector is non-functional

UMP
- Fire selector shows a 2 round burst option but it's not selectable

[Jimmy]

Totally forgot to mention the dust cover on the M4, updated.

[Greasy Gambeson]

Fixing the fire selector on the AK would be amazing for me. As it sits right now, the full auto and semi auto modes are in the wrong position which often makes me fire a burst when I'm trying to fire only a single round.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Zeren:

Fixing the fire selector on the AK would be amazing for me. As it sits right now, the full auto and semi auto modes are in the wrong position which often makes me fire a burst when I'm trying to fire only a single round.

Oh has that not yet been fixed? I knew it was an issue but I could have sworn someone mentioned it being fixed very recently. I didn't even think to double check it.

[Okie]

+Mini UZI fire mode selector

[Greasy Gambeson]

Originally posted by Jimmy:

Originally posted by Zeren:

Fixing the fire selector on the AK would be amazing for me. As it sits right now, the full auto and semi auto modes are in the wrong position which often makes me fire a burst when I'm trying to fire only a single round.

Oh has that not yet been fixed? I knew it was an issue but I could have sworn someone mentioned it being fixed very recently. I didn't even think to double check it.

Unless they fixed in the last week it's still broken. It's probably not even something that's very hard to fix. It's just a small detail that most people who aren't familiar with the weapon wouldn't notice. Though to the few who do know it, it's a big deal. I've died several times because I entered a small room with the fun-switch engaged only to have a single shot ring out when I hold the trigger down.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Oko:

+Mini UZI fire mode selector

Thanks, I've updated the list.

Originally posted by Zeren:

Unless they fixed in the last week it's still broken.

I've added it to the list, I'll double check next time I'm on but I'd rather have the list contain stuff that's been fixed than miss something important.

[Greasy Gambeson]

Originally posted by Jimmy:

I've added it to the list, I'll double check next time I'm on but I'd rather have the list contain stuff that's been fixed than miss something important.

I played a bit today and yes, the AK variants still have the fire selector in the wrong positions.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Zeren:

I played a bit today and yes, the AK variants still have the fire selector in the wrong positions.

Thanks for double checking that!

[Okie]

#makeAUGgreatAgain

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Oko:

#makeAUGgreatAgain

I mean the AUG has never worked the way it should. In terms of effectiveness it's pretty awesome as is.

[skarden]

Regarding the Aug, in my opinion making it a two stage isn't the best idea, the real Aug has 2.7kg trigger pressure for the first stage and 5kg for the second stage, which means it doesn't translate very well at all to very very light trigger pressure of the hand controllers.

There was a game that did this ( maybe even an early version of Pavlov) and I found it very difficult to hit that first pressure and ended up just going full auto every time.

While having a button for semi/Auto isn't realistic, it's the best way to do it in VR in my opinion.

[Brainslug]

Also keep in mind that the Pavlov guns are fantasy guns. They are made up, if they resemble any real guns that's coincidence... 😀

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by skarden:

Regarding the Aug, in my opinion making it a two stage isn't the best idea, the real Aug has 2.7kg trigger pressure for the first stage and 5kg for the second stage, which means it doesn't translate very well at all to very very light trigger pressure of the hand controllers.

There was a game that did this ( maybe even an early version of Pavlov) and I found it very difficult to hit that first pressure and ended up just going full auto every time.

While having a button for semi/Auto isn't realistic, it's the best way to do it in VR in my opinion.

Contractors does it and it's absolutely fantastic and works beautifully. Basically there's a point in the analog pull where you hit semi and the actual physical switch at the end of the pull is full. Makes it super easy to do. If we only had one mechanism in the controllers I could see it behind tricky but we have two and they're very explicitly different. It's super easy to pull your trigger up to the tactile switch and stop.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Brainslug:

Also keep in mind that the Pavlov guns are fantasy guns. They are made up, if they resemble any real guns that's coincidence... 😀

I totally accept that and agree that any similarities are completely coincidental. I'm simple simply saying that some other fantasy guns from other games use some very interesting mechanics that help them quite a bit with both functionality and immersion and we should take a look at how we can improve our fantasy guns.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by skarden:

which means it doesn't translate very well at all to very very light trigger pressure of the hand controllers.

Also checked H3VR and it does the same thing. Pulling up to the physical tactile switch is single and then when you actually click that switch it's auto.