3D PoV VS 2D Plane overview in Helldivers 1 ? a recipe for disaster or success ?

[[DBH].Whismerhill.{SSgt}]

Honestly, as a big fan of Helldivers 1
I'm a bit worried about the transition to 3D Point of View
Unlike real swat marines we can't touch each other or tap our team mates shoulders...

e.g. the 2D Plane overview in Helldivers 1 gave a lot of information to the discerning player that allowed coordination with pretty much anyone even randoms you met online, as long as they put in some effort
you saw all your team mates & their placement on your screen at once,
you were all locked to a single screen radius and had to do objectives together

I fear we'll see a lot more ramboing solo, a lot less cooperation unless incentives are made to cooperate & stay together

I fear knowing where are your team mates & where are the threats is gonna be a challenge
unless the game gives us good radar options

Now, I'm NOT saying the game should hold your hand & say : "hey you're gonna kill your team mate if you call this stratagem here"
No, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying we need some kind of radar overview to stay effectively together & watch all angles, or cameras showing your team mates pov or something & where they are looking at....

[o-o-o-Tekno-Musang-o-o-o]

Cant wait for people kicking pubs for not having a mic.
Old radar was pretty much okay, if they'll keep it it will be okay, widen the range tho, obviously

[Wretchad]

I didn't read your post until after I wrote my own Whismerhill. I believe that we have similar concerns overall. I got really excited when I was told a new Helldivers was to be released but after taking a look at it I'm almost upset. Maybe a better description would be - confused as to how upset I am. What I love about Helldivers is the isometric view.

Perhaps adding camera rotation and unlocking the players from the shared play space would be interesting / nice changes, but switching fully to an over the shoulder I feel is just a deal breaker for me I think. Though I do play games in first person and over the shoulder viewpoints, it's not what I would have wanted in Helldivers. I kinda feel that this is a play to pander to another player base hoping to gain more interest, but feel it may be game ruining for some and may just cause Helldivers to become yet another empty coke can in the trash. Briefly enjoyed and thrown away by the masses for the next thing just like it.

I want to like it but... I don't know if I'm too disappointed to.

[Hagon Wyvon]

Messaggio originale di DBH.Whismerhill.{SSgt}:

Messaggio originale di Goon:

Friendly fire is not the topic here, if you can't differentiate a massive bug to a space marine there's something wrong either with your eyes or your brain.

Point is, the perspective change fundamentally changed the game while remaining vaguely similar without visual clutter.

As for coordination, there's many games which provide no visual indication yet half decent people can coordinate well, eg. GTFO, Tarkov, DayZ etc. GTFO might be the closest to Helldivers in horde shooter sense yet it's relatively easy not to shoot your teammates. Deep Rock Galactic has FF too.

Point being, you don't need a 2D plane to coordinate with your team.

lol I was just making fun of your analogy which makes absolute no sense

Seems to me like you haven't played Helldivers otherwise you'd know what I'm talking about
I played some GTFO & Deep Rock Galactic (can't speak for the others) they can't be compared to Helldivers gameplay like at all

I agree with OP here, u guys forgot to check the fundamental thing that makes helldivers different from GTFO/DRG/TARKOV/ETC, Helldivers give u a bunch of small-medium objectives (small and equally important), like chores (sometime a big one mission but not as much), while others's objectives are like one big objective and an optional objective (one main quest and many side quests, only the main one is important, the rest are optional). These later game deal with FF differently, most give reduced damage, some has increasing ff as the difficulty goes up (sometimes even >100%), while helldivers just outright plain 100% ff with no reduce or increase

Messaggio originale di Goon:

3.

Perspective change does not necessary change the base gameplay loop.

Since the first game's missions are based around chores, applying those chores into the second game with personal cam would encourage players to split up, doing the opposite of what the devs wanted, so pov changed => objective type changed, the gameplay just shifted from many equally important objectives to the main objective and some optional

Messaggio originale di BlackjackGT:

As much as I'm disappointed at the perspective change -- especially since the "Secret Project" was initially posted as "from the combined dev teams behind Helldivers and Gauntlet," and why would we expect a 3rd person shooter from that dev-team, combination? -- and my worsening nausea/motion sickness problems that I blame mostly on the shift to multiplatform 1st/3rd person games maybe won't let me play this at all -- I'm still anxious to TRY this (which Steam's refund policy will let me do), whenever we get to and just make up my own mind. :)

Like most people here, it's like "show me," and "let me play for myselif," and then I can decide if the perspective switch is great and works fine, or if the change means I'm not enlisting this time. :)

Feels sorry for your motion sickness, but I heard that it could be better when u get use to it, hope u the best

Messaggio originale di Foxit Youkai:

Cant wait for people kicking pubs for not having a mic.
Old radar was pretty much okay, if they'll keep it it will be okay, widen the range tho, obviously

The minimap from hd1 works just fine, if u talking about the scout scanner, most people just ignore that completely

Messaggio originale di Ludewich:

When I saw the latest combat trailer, I immediately realized that they apparently put a lot of thought into creating a suitable HUD which makes you aware of your teammates. Looks promising IMHO.

Yes, because one of their franchise, Magicka, is top-down only, it really seems like they are trying something new even tho this many of people don't really like the idea of it. But if they kept the topdown, the people who complained about the topdown in the hd1 will also complain about it.

So, they at least tried new pov for the game, not many game studio can do that, I give them credit for that

[Dundo]

Messaggio originale di Hagon Wyvon:

I agree with OP here, u guys forgot to check the fundamental thing that makes helldivers different from GTFO/DRG/TARKOV/ETC, Helldivers give u a bunch of small-medium objectives (small and equally important), like chores (sometime a big one mission but not as much), while others's objectives are like one big objective and an optional objective (one main quest and many side quests, only the main one is important, the rest are optional). These later game deal with FF differently, most give reduced damage, some has increasing ff as the difficulty goes up (sometimes even >100%), while helldivers just outright plain 100% ff with no reduce or increase

Each one of those game requires micromanagement and objective management on a personal level despite it not being spelled out for you. Whether it's actually an on screen objective or not it doesn't make it any less of an actual gameplay relevant objective.
Tarkov has basically 1:1 FF to enemy damage and requires each and every teammate to participate in different ways. It's weird to say these "side objectives" don't exist when they just manifest differently.

It's up to player skill to dictate how much FF and Team play matters.

Each and every of these games requires the team to split up in a way to be most efficient but will reward team play and team awareness just as much.