Playing against the bots is insufferable right now

[Zet395]

I swear I didn't notice most of this stuff before. I may not be the best at the game, but I wanna say I'm fairly competent. It was pretty enjoyable to hit-and-run, then stealth against the bots, because it feels like the most effective tactic to use against them. However, while hit-and-run may still work to an extent, stealth is completely dead. Gone. Lost to the wind of the robot commie overlords on those forsaken worlds.

Last night, I called extraction, then hid behind a distant rock, just barely on the edge of abandoning extraction. The bots would run to the extract beacon, really angry -- as they always are -- looking around the area, but not knowing where I was. Here I am, completely still and prone behind the rock nowhere near them, and suddenly, they turn, shoot a few bullets at me, go back to being clueless, then ALL start coming to me, knowing where I am. Ofc, this doesn't happen just during extraction, but that was my first example of many I could give. So, stealth is useless. Why? Combine this with the spam of rocket units that insta-kill you and patrols that always seem to spawn on you, and they're straight unbearable to fight.

Somebody please tell me if I'm either doing something wrong, or they are just straight broken right now so I know I'm not going mad. I swear they weren't like this before the last update. I could at least stealth before. I swear I could.

[Galatea]

They changed the detection distances last patch

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Galatea:

They changed the detection distances last patch

Changing the detection distances in one thing, but seeing me THROUGH things HAS to be unintentional, doesn't it? No way could they see me from another side of a mountain.

[Wutever]

Originally posted by Zet395:

I swear I didn't notice most of this stuff before. I may not be the best at the game, but I wanna say I'm fairly competent. It was pretty enjoyable to hit-and-run, then stealth against the bots, because it feels like the most effective tactic to use against them. However, while hit-and-run may still work to an extent, stealth is completely dead. Gone. Lost to the wind of the robot commie overlords on those forsaken worlds.

Last night, I called extraction, then hid behind a distant rock, just barely on the edge of abandoning extraction. The bots would run to the extract beacon, really angry -- as they always are -- looking around the area, but not knowing where I was. Here I am, completely still and prone behind the rock nowhere near them, and suddenly, they turn, shoot a few bullets at me, go back to being clueless, then ALL start coming to me, knowing where I am. Ofc, this doesn't happen just during extraction, but that was my first example of many I could give. So, stealth is useless. Why? Combine this with the spam of rocket units that insta-kill you and patrols that always seem to spawn on you, and they're straight unbearable to fight.

Somebody please tell me if I'm either doing something wrong, or they are just straight broken right now so I know I'm not going mad. I swear they weren't like this before the last update. I could at least stealth before. I swear I could.

Never actually call extraction if you are solo or in a bad spot. The Extraction area has a threat radius that will increase patrol spawns and make them path to the extract. This is independent of them knowing you are there or not. You can still sit in a corner and hope for the best, but it's really risky.

Best strat to stealth extract in the current meta is to wait for emergency extraction and either sit in the middle of nowhere or kite enemies. As long as you are some 150m away from extraction nothing will patrol to the extraction zone itself. Then just run to it so that you get there just when the shuttle lands or is about to land. Free extraction unless you get popped by a rocket from across the map.

It's pretty bad design IMO, but it is what it is.

Also, bots, especially on the highlands template Draupnir uses can not only shoot through terrain but also detect through terrain. That's likely what happened to you.

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Wutever:

Originally posted by Zet395:

I swear I didn't notice most of this stuff before. I may not be the best at the game, but I wanna say I'm fairly competent. It was pretty enjoyable to hit-and-run, then stealth against the bots, because it feels like the most effective tactic to use against them. However, while hit-and-run may still work to an extent, stealth is completely dead. Gone. Lost to the wind of the robot commie overlords on those forsaken worlds.

Last night, I called extraction, then hid behind a distant rock, just barely on the edge of abandoning extraction. The bots would run to the extract beacon, really angry -- as they always are -- looking around the area, but not knowing where I was. Here I am, completely still and prone behind the rock nowhere near them, and suddenly, they turn, shoot a few bullets at me, go back to being clueless, then ALL start coming to me, knowing where I am. Ofc, this doesn't happen just during extraction, but that was my first example of many I could give. So, stealth is useless. Why? Combine this with the spam of rocket units that insta-kill you and patrols that always seem to spawn on you, and they're straight unbearable to fight.

Somebody please tell me if I'm either doing something wrong, or they are just straight broken right now so I know I'm not going mad. I swear they weren't like this before the last update. I could at least stealth before. I swear I could.

Never actually call extraction if you are solo or in a bad spot. The Extraction area has a threat radius that will increase patrol spawns and make them path to the extract. This is independent of them knowing you are there or not. You can still sit in a corner and hope for the best, but it's really risky.

Best strat to stealth extract in the current meta is to wait for emergency extraction and either sit in the middle of nowhere or kite enemies. As long as you are some 150m away from extraction nothing will patrol to the extraction zone itself. Then just run to it so that you get there just when the shuttle lands or is about to land. Free extraction unless you get popped by a rocket from across the map.

It's pretty bad design IMO, but it is what it is.

Also, bots, especially on the highlands template Draupnir uses can not only shoot through terrain but also detect through terrain. That's likely what happened to you.

It's just really frustrating when I'm hiding on the other side of a mountain and it seems like the mountain just doesn't exist and they know where I am. It just doesn't feel right... Maybe I'm getting upset over nothing, but nothing feels natural to me against them.

[Rampage]

why you think 90% of players play against bugs?

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Rampage:

why you think 90% of players play against bugs?

Well, before, I would say it was because of the major orders we had going. Truthfully, I thought I was gonna get more of "skill-issue" from the problems I was having. I have so much anxiety, but I wanna be sure I'm not going crazy.

[Agathos Deimon]

Its not only the bots. You cannot break/lose aggro with the bugs either anymore. Being out of line of sight, prone and slowly moving away from your last position and the bugs will still track you no matter want.

Using the map you can pretty much see how they in mysterious ways just follow your path even without LOS.

That together with the increasingly horribly patrol spawn design has moved the game from challenging, frustrating at time but fun to just mostly frustrating.

So time to take a break and see if devteam can sort the issues out or if this massive success in the end is beyond their managing skills.

[Estellese]

There is currently a glitch allowing both the bots and bugs to see you through walls and obstacles. (Sometimes, not always)

It is just more noticeable against bots because they will shoot at you despite not having LOS. While the bugs will just walk over.

The glitch also seems to allow bots to shoot -through- obstacles/walls/mountains.


Edit: Changed the word bug to glitch to avoid confusion with the bugs.

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Agathos Deimon:

Its not only the bots. You cannot break/lose aggro with the bugs either anymore. Being out of line of sight, prone and slowly moving away from your last position and the bugs will still track you no matter want.

Using the map you can pretty much see how they in mysterious ways just follow your path even without LOS.

That together with the increasingly horribly patrol spawn design has moved the game from challenging, frustrating at time but fun to just mostly frustrating.

So time to take a break and see if devteam can sort the issues out or if this massive success in the end is beyond their managing skills.

Like... I know enemies not losing agro is a known issue to them, but I feel like there's more issues now with bot behavior than there's ever been. I just didn't know if I was crazy or not...

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Estellese:

There is currently a bug allowing both the bots and bugs to see you through walls and obstacles.

It is just more noticeable against bots because they will shoot at you despite not having LOS. While the bugs will just walk over.

The bug also seems to allow bots to shoot -through- obstacles/walls/mountains.

Well, that would explain some things... It only ever seems like the Devastators are the one shooting through obstacles, so I just kinda looked past it. It makes a lot of sense though, with the problems I've been seeing lately against them.

[Estellese]

Originally posted by Zet395:

Well, that would explain some things... It only ever seems like the Devastators are the one shooting through obstacles, so I just kinda looked past it. It makes a lot of sense though, with the problems I've been seeing lately against them.

Yeah, they can all do it to some degree. And it is not always glitched. Sometimes they can see through everything, sometimes they can't. I have no idea what triggers it.

I actually have a clip of a marauder shooting me through a solid wall while I was trying to do one of my solo runs. It confused the hell out of me.

[Wutever]

Originally posted by Zet395:

Originally posted by Wutever:

[words]

It's just really frustrating when I'm hiding on the other side of a mountain and it seems like the mountain just doesn't exist and they know where I am. It just doesn't feel right... Maybe I'm getting upset over nothing, but nothing feels natural to me against them.

There's two things happening with the mountains:
1. patrols will always spawn and create a patrol route that intersects with the player's current position. This is why you need to keep moving and get bogged down if you don't. If you sit still or fight for a long time a patrol will always run into you. This is not great, but OK as a game mechanic to keep the pressure up.
2. sometimes bots just aggro through terrain and destructible objects. This is almost certainly a bug, and I think the devs know about it already. Fixing stuff like this can take time though because chances are they need to redo the mesh of the map or something.

Originally posted by Zet395:

Originally posted by Estellese:

There is currently a bug allowing both the bots and bugs to see you through walls and obstacles.

It is just more noticeable against bots because they will shoot at you despite not having LOS. While the bugs will just walk over.

The bug also seems to allow bots to shoot -through- obstacles/walls/mountains.

Well, that would explain some things... It only ever seems like the Devastators are the one shooting through obstacles, so I just kinda looked past it. It makes a lot of sense though, with the problems I've been seeing lately against them.

Oh, it's absolutely everyone, but Devastators (of all kinds) and Striders are the most common offenders.

[Zet395]

Originally posted by Wutever:

Originally posted by Zet395:

It's just really frustrating when I'm hiding on the other side of a mountain and it seems like the mountain just doesn't exist and they know where I am. It just doesn't feel right... Maybe I'm getting upset over nothing, but nothing feels natural to me against them.

There's two things happening with the mountains:
1. patrols will always spawn and create a patrol route that intersects with the player's current position. This is why you need to keep moving and get bogged down if you don't. If you sit still or fight for a long time a patrol will always run into you. This is not great, but OK as a game mechanic to keep the pressure up.
2. sometimes bots just aggro through terrain and destructible objects. This is almost certainly a bug, and I think the devs know about it already. Fixing stuff like this can take time though because chances are they need to redo the mesh of the map or something.

I hope they do. Hit-and-run is fun, and stealth is needed at times, but when you can't stealth, sometimes you get put into situations you can't win and it just won't feel like your fault.

[pzhda'tan]

Originally posted by Zet395:

Originally posted by Galatea:

They changed the detection distances last patch

Changing the detection distances in one thing, but seeing me THROUGH things HAS to be unintentional, doesn't it? No way could they see me from another side of a mountain.

They can shoot through terrain and obstacles too. I don't know what causes it but it's happened to me plenty of times where bullets hit through a rock.

[sgt.longbow]

is no one going to talk about the 90% hit rate for bots?