Sniper rifles are unusable in Helldivers 2.

[tekeous]

Snipers blow chunks in Helldivers 2, and here's why.

The Diligence does a pathetic 165 damage and basically isn't worth using, especially since it can't penetrate armor. It probably is similar to a 5.56 rifle which means it should be medium armor penetrating at least. It's literally outperformed by almost every other weapon in the game for either penetration, damage, or both.

The Diligence Counter Sniper does 200 damage, which is OK, but still pathetic. Penetrates medium armor, but is embarrassed by the fact that the Senator does the same 200 damage and penetrates heavy armor. I've got a news flash for Helldivers devs - there is no universe where a revolver does more penetration than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sniper rifle. The Counter Sniper is probably a .50 BMG rifle or similar, and if I shoot a Charger or Hulk in the face, it should immediately sit right down on its ass. The Senator, since it fires a slower round, should be the one doing medium penetration.

The Eruptor is pay-to-win, since it's the _only usable_ sniper rifle in the game, but it's crippled by short range(the round explodes after a short distance) - so why bother putting a sniper scope on it at all? It's the only rifle capable of clearing out medium bugs just fine, but not due to precise sniper shots - due to exploding rounds. The rounds _bounce off_ Bile Titans unless you hit them juuuust right - but it can one-shot a Factory Strider from beneath(as it should). It's _utterly incapable_ of damaging a Charger at all, unless for some reason the Charger is heading away from you.

Here's how sniper rifles should work: the recoil should be horrendous unless you're prone. The Diligence should penetrate medium armor. The Counter Sniper should penetrate heavy armor. The Eruptor should penetrate heavy armor, stun, and clear the surrounding area with the explosion. There is very little, if any, armor that we know of that can stop a .50 BMG, so there's basically no bug or bot that should be able to take Counter Sniper rounds or greater and keep walking.

Sniper rifles are meant to be slow firing, high damage weapons that reward precision, and penetrate effortlessly. I should be able to find a spot, see a long distance with the scope and ping for my team, and land shots in critical hit points at range and bring large enemies to their knees while my team is working on crowd control. Unfortunately, most of the sniper rifles in this game are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ useless, because the devs feel like you're supposed to bring a rocket launcher instead of a precision rifle.

Now, and let's not forget the AMR - but as a support weapon, like the Quasar or the Recoilless, it should be able to one-shot large enemies effortlessly at long range. The "long range" is the bloody point of being a sniper rifle, and the "anti-material" in AMR means that it was designed to penetrate any material and do massive damage. I could settle for Counter Sniper doing 2-3 shots to kill a Charger and the AMR doing one.

Signed, the teammate who wants to play as a sniper, but can't, because there are no good long range rifles in the game.

[Khal'cynee]

we need a bolt action primary rifle
i think giving AP round to eruptor would solve the problem
AP4 pen, 400/500 damage, no explosion/shrapnel, very long range
it will also fixe the issue that eruptor feel lacking compared to crossbow, with AP round it will have a real different purpose

[Leonardo808]

Counter sniper and AMR are amazing against bots. You can definitely play as the sniper guy with bots.

[dyra55]

Originally posted by Khal'cynee:

we need a bolt action primary rifle

Like Constitution?

[StaunchStache]

The AMR exists. No need to power creep primaries that are quite powerful already.

[Trig_Zero]

Originally posted by dyra55:

Originally posted by Khal'cynee:

we need a bolt action primary rifle

Like Constitution?

but better
Constitution is a meme and always will be

[N*rd]

Originally posted by tekeous:

[...]
The Counter Sniper is probably a .50 BMG rifle or similar, and if I shoot a Charger or Hulk in the face, it should immediately sit right down on its ass. The Senator, since it fires a slower round, should be the one doing medium penetration.
[...]

Imagine that balance:

The R-63CS Diligence Counter Sniper has 15 magazines with a rate of fire of 350 RPM, which is about 5-6 shots per second.

A Charger has 2,400 HP and heavy armor on the head.

This would mean AP4 with an insane amount of damage, theoretically able to kill 6 Chargers per second. It would also mean you could three-shot a Bile Titan with your primary weapon in half a second.

That's hilarious and completely unbalanced

[Dundo]

Originally posted by Trig_Zero:

Originally posted by dyra55:

Like Constitution?

but better
Constitution is a meme and always will be

Constitution 2.0 when?

[Logen Neuf-Doigts]

only bad sniper rifles are constitution and regular diligence, diligence CS is one of the kings on the bot front , AMR too, and are both decent choices too on the bug front when faced with hive guards , spewers or alpha commanders
also one shotting a charger is an anti tank job , RR has like 6 rounds in the backpack , AMR has 40 reserve ammo and no backpack , that would make any other support weapon completely obsolete
the fact that you think the eruptor is the only usable one makes me believe you need an AOE effect to be effective , sniper much eh ?

[Dakota]

The diligences are 9mm, CS is higher velocity, the AMR is the one that's .50, you can see the AMR does a lot more than the senator or the diligence.

Diligences aren't sniper rifles either, they're marksmen rifles, which are an inbetween between a sniper rifle and an assault rifle, has the scope of a sniper but with damage around double an AR and rate of fire around half.

Eruptor's notably worse than the diligence CS in general.

The suggestion of the AMR oneshotting chargers is pretty silly, they're like tank grade targets, sure you can take it down with your AMR eventually, but you need an RPG to take one of those out in one shot. Then the Diligence is just 9mm so nah.

[Cyroy]

On any Devastator even the regular Diligence is a one-shot to the head and 9 shots to the pelvis. It double taps any regular bots to the body or also a single shot to the head. It's fine.

[J[_]ne B[_]9 [GB]]

Originally posted by tekeous:

The Diligence Counter Sniper does 200 damage, which is OK, but still pathetic. Penetrates medium armor, but is embarrassed by the fact that the Senator does the same 200 damage and penetrates heavy armor. I've got a news flash for Helldivers devs - there is no universe where a revolver does more penetration than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sniper rifle.

The DCS is in the Marksman Rifle category. Trading high fire-power bullet calibre of Sniper Rifles, for a lower calibre like 5.56, which you did suggest it being. The weapon's name DOES contradict the category, but you can't really change that this late into the game's life. The senator doing more damage makes sense if you assume the DCS is a 5.56 Marksman Rifle.

Originally posted by tekeous:

Here's how sniper rifles should work: the recoil should be horrendous unless you're prone.

Nah, most fights are <50M & there are too many enemies for this to be a good idea. It would turn most players away from using them altogether, especially on the terminid front, where 90% of your fights include kiting & shooting at <20M.

Originally posted by tekeous:

The Diligence should penetrate medium armor. The Counter Sniper should penetrate heavy armor. The Eruptor should penetrate heavy armor, stun, and clear the surrounding area with the explosion.

Pretty reasonable, but you need to make another reason for me to pick the Diligence > Diligence-CS. Otherwise players will still only pick the DCS.

Originally posted by tekeous:

I could settle for Counter Sniper doing 2-3 shots to kill a Charger and the AMR doing one.

No, this is way too much damage
If you allow the DCS to 2-3 shot a charger, you've just made it the AT Meta & literally NOTHING ELSE is worth taking. NOT EVEN THE 1-shot AMR. It would trivialise the game way too much & the fun factor would quickly dissipate.

Give the DCS AP-4, & the AMR AP-5, then call it a day. Keep the damage as it is for now, then tweak it AFTER the armor change.

CURRENTLY:

AMR VS Charger: 8 Head-shots
AMR VS Behemoth: 14 Head-shots
AMR VS Bile-Titan: 12 Head-shots

If the AMR gets AP-5, it would take 1 mag to drop a Regular charger, & 2 for a behemoth OR Bile-Titan. More than fair since it would still be faster to fire a single rocket at a BIle-T or Behemoth.

[Flavalicious]

Yea, how about not. lol

I don't need some dead weight player in my lobby trying to play out his Sniper Elite Fantasy in this game instead of playing the dedicated titles for that sort of thing. They could do this and then every other post on the forums would be people crying about all the planets that don't have clear atmospheres and open terrain. Hard pass.

If you want to 1 shot Chargers from super far away, do it with a RR like the rest of us. lol

[Wutever]

The weekend is over. You're not allowed to make skill issue threads anymore.

[✖tasy]

Everrythin OP said is true and based
These kind of buffs won't make game "unbalanced" at all, since you still need to be pretty good with aiming and positioning to utilize these weapons. Moreover, only a crack addict will try to kill chargers with sniper rifles, despite AP and damage. You don't see people running around with Senators and no AT or support weapons - primaries and secondaries simply can't make them obsolete. At least with such stats both Diligences will be utilized on both fronts more effectively, while being fun and satisfying to use. It's not a milslim simulator, it's a horde shooter, anytime you want to complain about buffs, remeber, how the game was for 4 months in a row after reveal about Alexus working on balancing.

Another point in order to make snipers effective is the existence of Jar-5. Gun is a slug in every way, has the worst handling and sound, but damage and pen is enough for certain content creators to solo 9 and 10 diff while obliterating factory striders, Yet it exists, people run it still and utilize it as a discount DMR, when in reality, both Diligence and DCS should be doing that amount of dmg and pen.

Idk about Eruptor, ssems fine to me, but can be buffed as well. In regards to DMR's, R-63 can use 200 - 225 dmg and medium pen, as well as 200m scope and it will be peachy, unskilled players will just toss it away and DMR enjoyers will be able to utilize it against both factions much smoother. DCS could have 250 and AP4 with an ajustment to handling, and you would be able to make it your anti-heavy unit opiton, while running Stalwart or medium MG or whatever. Guns will be adequte and have their niche for players who enjoy semi-auto carbines and DMR's, the rest will play whatever they like.

Thing is, this creates another issue that anything renders AR's and shotguns nearly useless, so they would need to have the same treatment next.

I just hope that AH either makes this happen or puts out an upgrade system, which, with certain amount of grind, will provide us with desired stats. Right now DMR's are only viable, but they could be much, much better.

[Koala 4peace]

You are making up so much crap it's absurd. Game balance before delusions, please.

Originally posted by ✖tasy:

Everrythin OP said is true and based
These kind of buffs won't make game "unbalanced" at all...

Yes, it would. Period. To accomodate such changes, absolutely every weapon and enemy should be changed.