The Kicking System Is in fact, a Necessary Evil

[Rockethead293]

#1, not editing this in, I know people will accuse me of clown farming. I ain't.
#2, yes edited in but very shortly after posted, I have kicked only one person who killed all of us with no reinforcements left. I ain't trolling as a host.

I've seen several proposed "solutions" that are in fact worse. Here they are, and here is why they will never work.

A karma system: This one has variables. This is too broad, so I won't rate it. Only here because I know people will start yelling if I exclude it.

Disabling kicking at [insert point here]: This won't work. Soon as kicking is disabled, people will troll. Plus, people can just kick before said point.

Votekicking: Trolls come in packs. Simple as that. Four people isn't enough for a votekicking system, either.

If you have other solutions, and they're bad, I will debunk them in comments and in the title page. Enjoy the warzone down there.

[ShockedHearts]

just like any co-op/pvp game.

simply play with people who arent trolls.

trolls will always be there, no amount of changing systems will change that and eventually you will be effected by one. simply put, cant be trolled if you dont participate with them to begin with.

the best answer is finding a healthy community on a discord server, or perhaps adding a few people you can regularly play with to minimize randoms being a constant in your dives.

trolling isnt always happening its not a CONSTANT issue as people make it seem.

[Rockethead293]

Stop arguing on my damn post. It achieves nothing.

[biebel]

Captain Rhodes님이 먼저 게시:

biebel님이 먼저 게시:

I would just like to see who I got kicked by if it's during a mission, so I can just block them if I feel like it was unjustified.

It's always the host. If you don't know who the host was it's no wonder you got kicked.

Ok Captain obvious lol. Weird that I rarely get kicked and never know who the host is when playing the first mission with randoms. I'm now imagining you as the do you know who I am memes when you're the host.

[Church.exe]

TBH I don't even experience the issue with the kick system people are talking about. I just pick most of the games so I'm almost always the host sure, but even when I have joined other games I don't recall being kicked more than a few times, often from generally toxic hosts who I probably wouldn't want to keep helping out anyway. Of course, we do still want to encourage people to join other games and help out, so I don't think that alone is really a good answer.

What might be good though is a positive-karma system. In other words don't penalize players who are kicked, (since that can happen for really any reason) but instead reward players who consistently join into games and carry people through. For instance if you intentionally selected and dropped in on an SOS (as opposed to just quickplaying) that only had 1 reinforce remaining, but then the squad won that mission and you stayed with that group until the entire mission-group was beaten, (more credit the more missions that includes) then you get +280 "Severe Support Reputation" or something which means you get a multiplier for rewards when you join other games in the future. This would encourage more people to actually play as "Severe Supports" and drop in to help out other players. Yes you might get kicked occasionally, and that does suck, but you'd have a good incentive to keep dropping in on SOS players anyway because if you win you're actually getting 1.5x the samples, credits, medals, etc.

In other words, make a system where people who consistently drop in and help out other players can build up a support-reputation that leads to them getting more rewards than they would if they were hosting missions.

You would probably need to tweak the SOS functionality a bit to grant more preference to people who specifically called for an SOS. For instance make it so that instead of just quick-playing make it so that there is an SOS-Response menu where you can actually see a table of players, how many people are in the mission, how many reinforcements are left, how many objectives are completed, etc. and then pick who to help. You could even combine systems and have an "SOS Karma" that means that if you kick people who have a good "Severe Support Reputation" consistently other players can then see that and then they'll be less likely to respond to your SOS beacon because you have a history of kicking people who genuinely are helpful. This would make dropping in and helping out people who threw an SOS a full playstyle rather than just "drop an SOS beacon and people are a bit more likely to join your game if they quickplay". You could see people have entire builds around recovering SHTF situations and getting a nearly dead squad out alive and since both groups are encouraged to play honestly I imagine unfair kicks would become far less frequent. I mean if you see a nearly-lost Helldive mission, but you also see that if you join in and can help them win it you'll get 2 or 3 times the loot, and you see they have a good reputation for not kicking people who join, you're pretty likely to join and try to help honestly. On the other hand if you see someone whose doing more or less fine and has a slightly dodgy reputation for kicking people, you're more likely to skip them over.

I do agree that the host having the ability to kick is probably the best option overall, but there definitely are still ways to improve it. The issue I think is that people are trying to automate it way too much, when it's probably better to just let players decide the people they help and ignore. (with that said, it's probably not a good idea to include player names on that SOS-list, just say their Karma and what's going on with the mission, the player name is irrelevant and could lead to it being abused for griefing)

[Inner Sight]

Rockethead293님이 먼저 게시:

Inner Sight님이 먼저 게시:

Instancing. If a player is disconnected for any rason - including being kicked - they go into an identical mission alone. This would theoretically nullify trolls kicking at extraction.

Good point. The only problem is that it's just hard to make a system that does that. Course, it's possible.

They already have instancing in the game. i've experienced two counts of disconnections where the party remained in the mission - just separately (we were connected by voice chat over Discord). But so far it has only worked that way for disconnection (not kicks). And even then it never works if the disconnection is because Steam itself went down.

So they've already got the framework. They just need to apply it to kicking.

[pu3t]

kebabsoup님이 먼저 게시:

Just make a hidden stat about how much each player teamkills and kicks, then take the outliers and group them together in matchmaking.

I will pay in premium warbond to be able to watch games only populated with this kind of players.

[Aldain]

Hand's Hermit Permit님이 먼저 게시:

Give the number of kicks the host has done when you open up the menu. Then you can avoid hosts that are liable to kick based on the number and their hours/level.

It's literally just more information so people can make more informed decisions.

The easiest solution more or less.

I'd even make the number tick down for missions completed without kicks, that way the number stays low for people that run into actual problematic players.

But I swear if you go by some of the posts around here people are literally unable to run into a single game without having to kick a "troll" for some reason or another, like the game is somehow so utterly lousy with trolls that the game is barely playable.

Well if that group can wildly assume that every kick is the fault of the kicked and only want the system changed so they can troll, I can assume that everyone complaining about nonstop trolls is lying so they can keep trolling with kicks, seems fair to me.

[8Squirrels]

CritMasterFlex님이 먼저 게시:

Sid님이 먼저 게시:

a hug improvement.

Hell yeah, they're buffing hugs confirmed

Finally!

Aldain님이 먼저 게시:

Hand's Hermit Permit님이 먼저 게시:

Give the number of kicks the host has done when you open up the menu. Then you can avoid hosts that are liable to kick based on the number and their hours/level.

It's literally just more information so people can make more informed decisions.

The easiest solution more or less.

I'd even make the number tick down for missions completed without kicks, that way the number stays low for people that run into actual problematic players.

But I swear if you go by some of the posts around here people are literally unable to run into a single game without having to kick a "troll" for some reason or another, like the game is somehow so utterly lousy with trolls that the game is barely playable.

Well if that group can wildly assume that every kick is the fault of the kicked and only want the system changed so they can troll, I can assume that everyone complaining about nonstop trolls is lying so they can keep trolling with kicks, seems fair to me.

I've probably run about 150 missions at this point, so let's say that I played with 600 unique players for the sake of argument. Of those 600, I've only seen a single person kicked and that was for deliberate team killing. So that works out to less than 1% of the people I've played with being trolls.

There's plenty of people I've played with who are obviously still learning the game and have no clue what's going on, but that's completely different than deliberate trolling. I'm still in the learning the game category as well and have certainly done stuff that probably pissed more experienced players off. That's just how it goes

[MayMay]

Agree. I always autokick anyone that have parrot, dog and wife in their mic background

[Ryzilynt]

Sorry bro, gotta block profiles that make "kick" threads

[Rockethead293]

Ryzilynt님이 먼저 게시:

Sorry bro, gotta block profiles that make "kick" threads

okay, who asked tho