How much Souls is in this compared to Zelda?

[Nightmare Lyra]

I love Zelda and find Souls stuff super boring, so I'd like to know which way this is leaning

[Ninami]

If you find Souls boring then this is probably not for you. If you die in this game you respawn to the latest fire you found and everything you killed respawns. So its more similar to Souls than Zelda in that way.

[Borril]

....I don't get what people cinsuder it souls like.

A stamina bar?
Dodging
The story is semi-cryptic and needs to be learned?
It's not wildly hard, but it's pretty much puzzles and dungeon based

[CowboyYojimbo]

It's not related to Souls at all. If you love Zelda, you'll love Tunic.

Originally posted by Borril:

....I don't get what people cinsuder it souls like.

A stamina bar?
Dodging
The story is semi-cryptic and needs to be learned?
It's not wildly hard, but it's pretty much puzzles and dungeon based

This baffles me too. Demon's Souls didnt do anything groundbreaking except its online message system. It was just a really well done action rpg. I think many younger peoples first action rpg or adventure game was a Souls and so they see it as inventing everything.

[AngelTheVixen]

Hard games = Dark Souls, it's been like this forever, obviously.

[Doko]

Going by reviews on YT, the negative reviews on here and the one tag that's glaringly obvious, I'd say this is more souls-like than Zelda, and it's why it didn't originally show up on new Steam releases for me (as I have Souls-like blocked as a tag).

Also, gonna unsub from the thread, since I'm not up for debating with Souls fans (you know who you are) on how this game isn't one, or "what makes a souls game", because that's a pointless topic and deconstructive/reactionary towards anything said about Souls.

[Hyrrämyyrä [Noobie♥Doobie]]

Originally posted by CowboyYojimbo:

It's not related to Souls at all. If you love Zelda, you'll love Tunic.

Originally posted by Borril:

....I don't get what people cinsuder it souls like.

A stamina bar?
Dodging
The story is semi-cryptic and needs to be learned?
It's not wildly hard, but it's pretty much puzzles and dungeon based

This baffles me too. Demon's Souls didnt do anything groundbreaking except its online message system. It was just a really well done action rpg. I think many younger peoples first action rpg or adventure game was a Souls and so they see it as inventing everything.

What Demon Souls did was be published at the right time in the right way. It was considered to be a very badly designed game by the publisher and reviewers, until western audiences were introduced to it by let's players, who took it as a challenge, which in turn helped it to be seen from a different angle.

But yeah, the mechanics and the difficulty has existed before Demon Souls, as FPS games existed before Wolf3D and Doom.

And for what makes a "souls like", it seems that the main ingredients are:
-deterministic attacks (as in, when you start an attack, you either finish it, or are interupted)
-The previous applies to enemies too
-evasion mechanic, often with block and parry on the side
-Stamina management
-well telegraphed enemies and patterns
-not losing "progress" as much as losing "experience points" (usually with a custom name)
-"bonfires"
-respawning enemies on "checkpoints"
-usually associated with "fair difficulty", however, this part is often misunderstood by devs

Source: I generally pulled it from my arse, to be fair, but these seems elements seem to gravitate game to be called a souls like.

[Spark7979]

t. guy who got filtered.

[Minneyar]

"Soulslike" is probably my least favorite label for a genre (and this is from somebody who loves "Metroidvanias"). The problem is that people will call anything remotely difficult where you respawn when you die a "Soulslike", but for me, the defining feature of the Dark Souls games is that most of the difficulty is due to either the game trolling you with hidden enemies and traps, and the games like to punish you by taking away 30 minutes to an hour of progress when you die.

[AMDman18]

I feel It's pretty soulsy. Much more soulsy than Zelda. In Zelda, combat is more of an annoyance that stands between you and puzzles. In this game, there is much more to the combat itself. Stamina managenent for evading, posture management when blocking, and generally much more devastating enemies in general. Some standard enemies in this game require more thought and strategy than full bosses in Zelda games. Not to mention the bonfires, complete with respawning enemies, health potions, and having to collect your "soul" upon death. Also, the cryptic world exploration and item discovery. This game is MUCH more baby's first souls like than it is a Zelda like.

[Tajer]

I guess I'm a little confused. I always thought of Dark Souls as being Zelda-like. Is that not the case?

[Neurotic Panda]

every game is souls like now. its a joke.

i've seen reviews on RTS games that mention its souls like.

I've seen people say games are souls like because you can choose classes. oh its souls like you can choose your class...

please come up with a new trend. rofl.

[CowboyYojimbo]

Originally posted by AMDman18:

I feel It's pretty soulsy. Much more soulsy than Zelda. In Zelda, combat is more of an annoyance that stands between you and puzzles. In this game, there is much more to the combat itself. Stamina managenent for evading, posture management when blocking, and generally much more devastating enemies in general. Some standard enemies in this game require more thought and strategy than full bosses in Zelda games. Not to mention the bonfires, complete with respawning enemies, health potions, and having to collect your "soul" upon death. Also, the cryptic world exploration and item discovery. This game is MUCH more baby's first souls like than it is a Zelda like.

The thing is, these are all elements that existed for generations before Fromsoft even dreamt up Souls. If its your first experience playing something with those traits, it doesnt mean it was the actual first. It's so limiting to try and classify art is such a small number of boxes/labels.

[MimicMachine]

Originally posted by AMDman18:

This game is MUCH more baby's first souls like than it is a Zelda like.

I feel the opposite but for me Zelda like and Souls like really aren't different. I'd go so far as saying Souls like is just a mix of getting lost like Zelda 1 and the combat of 3D Zelda games.

Anyways outside of bosses, most of the enemies are trivial and more of the game has been about puzzles and piecing together hints. This feels more Zelda ish to me

[Mendo Shutaro]

For me it's way too much Dark Souls and nowhere near enough Zelda. It has all of the usual Souls trappings - enemies respawning when you save, if you die you need to find your body to reclaim your gems, and the combat is very much dodge, attack, dodge, attack. And of course there are very few save points, the difficulty level is absolutely brutal, and your reward for getting through a difficult spot is that a shortcut opens up somewhere.

It's on GamePass if you want to try it. I'm glad I didn't buy it as I don't especially enjoy games which are needlessly cryptic and annoyingly difficult. In short, if you like Souls games then you'll probably like this. If you like Zelda games then stay well clear.

[Stoibs]

Originally posted by Borril:

....I don't get what people cinsuder it souls like.

A stamina bar?
Dodging
The story is semi-cryptic and needs to be learned?

Well among other things like arbitrarily respawning enemies when saving and the like, the overreliance on dodgeroll spamming is indeed one of them for me.
I don't find it particularly fun nor immersive to be flopping around on the ground all the time in combat encounters. As a random aside this is why I could never get into the Witcher 2/3 after loving the first one too, went from a rythmetic and methodical timed melee system to a dodgespam I-frame fest

Seems it's the route *a lot* of games are going these days sadly. I miss going toe to toe with something, or even the classic Assassin Creed days of perfect parrying and blocking to perform stylistic counters compared to darting across face first into the dirt a dozen times per fight.