Revert Javelin

[The Nekomancer]

The weapon makes moonfire look good now on difficulties where balance actually matters. Every breakpoint is gone (sometimes by several hits). Stop listening to the casual scrubs who rely on green circles to validate their skills as an epic gamer. Kerillian does not have a clean ranged slot anymore. I experimented with a Handmaiden power stacking build for Legend (38% give or take before charms) and it takes 3 headshots for a chaos warrior.... ON LEGEND

[zZerod]

It's like Kerillian wasn't a thing before javelin was added.

[Ing. Ithiridiel]

Damn, its almost like chaos warriors are supposed to be hard to kill with ranged weapons.

[MT]

This may shock you, but there is a reason chaos warriors have super armor and thus are highly resitant against ranged weapons. You are not expected to kill them in ranged combat with ease.

Also: legend wtf? there are literally longbow builds existing since 2019 that allow you to one shot stormvermins. There is literally no power (break point) difference between jav and longbow on legend.

Longbow brings fire rate and more rewarding headshotting, javelin brings mobility and unlimited ammo. Choose what suits your style better.

[Ing. Ithiridiel]

Originally posted by MT:

This may shock you, but there is a reason chaos warriors have super armor and thus are highly resitant against ranged weapons. You are not expected to kill them in ranged combat with ease.

Also: legend wtf? there are literally longbow builds existing since 2019 that allow you to one shot stormvermins. There is literally no power (break point) difference between jav and longbow on legend.

Longbow brings fire rate and more rewarding headshotting, javelin brings mobility and unlimited ammo. Choose what suits your style better.

I think the new jav does a lot more damage to unarmored, but falls off with range much faster than longbow does.

[The Nekomancer]

Sure chaos warriors are meant to be hard, expect that they aren't. 2 shot headshot is pretty reasonable on Legend for any ranged weapon that can do decent armour. And what really does unlimited ammo mean when it's not a problem on almost every weapon in the game. The reload already gimped javelin

[Vance]

Interesting to see all those players coming out of the woodwork once the Javelin was rebalanced. And instead of taking the high ground and work around the change, they make dozens of threads about it - Not even bothering to focus on a single one for feedback, suggestion and workarounds.

Just complaints that their toy was broken, and throwing a fit that 'the casuals' ruined their game again.

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by Vance:

Interesting to see all those players coming out of the woodwork once the Javelin was rebalanced. And instead of taking the high ground and work around the change, they make dozens of threads about it - Not even bothering to focus on a single one for feedback, suggestion and workarounds.

Just complaints that their toy was broken, and throwing a fit that 'the casuals' ruined their game again.

Don't forget one of the dumb arguments against the nerfs is that they are paid dlcs lol

[Adelion]

Originally posted by Carnifex:

Originally posted by Vance:

Interesting to see all those players coming out of the woodwork once the Javelin was rebalanced. And instead of taking the high ground and work around the change, they make dozens of threads about it - Not even bothering to focus on a single one for feedback, suggestion and workarounds.

Just complaints that their toy was broken, and throwing a fit that 'the casuals' ruined their game again.

Don't forget one of the dumb arguments against the nerfs is that they are paid dlcs lol

I think the "This is PvE, it doesn't need balance." or "It doesn't work on Cataclysm 3 Twitch anymore." are the dumber arguments. Zero understanding of game design and fun.

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by Adelion:

Originally posted by Carnifex:

Don't forget one of the dumb arguments against the nerfs is that they are paid dlcs lol

I think the "This is PvE, it doesn't need balance." or "It doesn't work on Cataclysm 3 Twitch anymore." are the dumber arguments. Zero understanding of game design and fun.

All 3 arguments are dumb arguments. Being mad that a weapon, inside a dlc (which wasnt even the selling point) got nerfed and mad because they paid for it, is pretty damn dumb.
Not being able to use a career/weapon in those mode are dumb arguments for how extreme they are.

[EvilNando]

Originally posted by Ing. Ithiridiel:

Damn, its almost like chaos warriors are supposed to be hard to kill with ranged weapons.

weird I can one shot chaos with huntsman maybe nerf that too?
also pyro bolt staff says hello

[Neutral Effect]

Originally posted by MrCthulhu:

The weapon makes moonfire look good now on difficulties where balance actually matters. Every breakpoint is gone (sometimes by several hits). Stop listening to the casual scrubs who rely on green circles to validate their skills as an epic gamer. Kerillian does not have a clean ranged slot anymore. I experimented with a Handmaiden power stacking build for Legend (38% give or take before charms) and it takes 3 headshots for a chaos warrior.... ON LEGEND

There are other good weapons on Kerillian that ain't overpowered such as Longbow, Moonfire Bow or Swift Bow. If you suddenly find yourself lacking in power without Briar Javelin - which was Saltzpyre's / Bardin's Crossbow except with:

• more damage
  
• more armor damage
  
• super armor penetration
  
• horde-wide cleave
  
• monk and chaos warrior overhead staggering
  
• knocking soft elites to the ground
  
• and unlimited ammunition for some inane reason on top of all that

Then bad news pal, it's a skill issue. I recommend you to git gud.
Also Fatshark shouldn't listen exclusively to Cataclysm players as those are the minority, so it's just bad business model to ruin the game for everyone else just to satisfy those few guys. Cataclysm players won't purchase any DLCs, so not worth investing into them, sorry :(

Originally posted by EvilNando:

Originally posted by Ing. Ithiridiel:

Damn, its almost like chaos warriors are supposed to be hard to kill with ranged weapons.

weird I can one shot chaos with huntsman maybe nerf that too?
also pyro bolt staff says hello

Between limited ammunition / overheat risk, charge time on both those weapons and their inability to stunlock a Chaos Warrior, killing him with those weapons takes way more skill than just spamming him with a perma-staggering Briar Javelin. So yes they are fine and Briar Javelin wasn't.

Also nice whataboutism bro, you gonna bring up Trollpedo next?

[EvilNando]

you can stun luck chaos warriors with huntsman bow headshots

the javeling has been effectively been removed as a viable high damage weapon meanwhile other high damage ranged items exist in the game

staff generate overcharge sure but javelin only gets three shots and reload times are long, meanwhile battlewizards can vent overcharge no problem and keep the spam

the javelin nerf is such that there is no longer a reason to select it from a longbow

nerfing the damage in such a dramatic way was not the correct way to approach this issue either everyone gets a damage reduction in their ranged arsenal or no one does, if the jav there are multiple ways it can get nerfed besides damage

I really do not get your angle are you a dev on an alt account?

[Neutral Effect]

Originally posted by EvilNando:

you can stun luck chaos warriors with huntsman bow headshots

the javeling has been effectively been removed as a viable high damage weapon meanwhile other high damage ranged items exist in the game

staff generate overcharge sure but javelin only gets three shots and reload times are long, meanwhile battlewizards can vent overcharge no problem and keep the spam

the javelin nerf is such that there is no longer a reason to select it from a longbow

The reload time on a Briar Javelin was as fast as the reload time on a Crossbow, and that's despite the fact that Briar Javelin just regenerated ammunition while Crossbow had to expend from limited pool. And that's on top of just being a better weapon overall, and despite Crossbow being a good weapon in and of itself.
Briar Javelin could stunlock no matter where you hit the CW, while Longbow had to hit him in the head.
Venting overcharge literally damages you, regenerating Briar Javelins takes nothing.
Damage wasn't nerfed in a dramatic way - it was literally just a few percent. This is a definition of small damage nerf. It didn't even affect breakpoints for Warpfire Thrower / Ratling on Cataclysm since you can still meet those.

Originally posted by EvilNando:

either everyone gets a damage reduction in their ranged arsenal or no one does

Only those who are overpowered get a reduction in their ranged damage. Crossbow was literally just a worse weapon than Briar Javelin in every single regard, it shouldn't get nerfed just so that elf mains' feelings are not hurt.

[CLG]

The only good thing about javelin is that it has infinite ammo and a bit of extra poke range if you want to melee it up. It's still honestly not that bad of a pick if you want to play shade with dual daggers and want to fall back on another melee weapon with some extra range. Honestly I don't use javelin anymore on any of my loadouts. If it takes 2-3 javelins minimum to kill a blightstormer on body shots then it's just not worth taking. Longbow damage has always been somewhat comparable but it also has the zoom along with a much faster rate of fire with the ability to shoot without having to aim. I would say that javelin is still better than swift bow and hagbane for most situations but it's not a weapon worth using for legend. Also I use moonfire on my handmaiden, it's really useful to just spam shots without needing much aim and then swappning back to block quickly while the target just burns to death.

[Apotheosis]

no jav has long been way too powerful with 0 drawbacks. its a big-ass projectile so its hitbox is massive, it has infinite ammo and it can double as a melee weapon so you dont have to switch. you have to take the L, it simply wasnt balanced and theres nothing you can say that will change the fact it was way overpowered and the best ranged weapon in the entire game