Does Repellant Foam actually work?

[battlezoby]

I've been spraying some in just a few spots on the ground during the final Drilldozer stage and during the "guard you spot" parts of Salvage Mission. Just a few spots or areas - I'm a not making lines that the bugs can't walk around if they wanted to - not even close.

But it seem like the bugs just go straight across them as if they're not even there. They don't seem to repel the bugs in the slightest.

So, does it actually do something normally? Is there sometimes else I could be doing to make it work better? I definitely have Repellant selected.

Pretty sure (like 95%+ sure) that this includes missions where I'm hosting, and it includes times when the foam's be laying there a full minute or more before the bug casually stroll across it instead of walking a little bit to either side to go around it. It includes single platforms as well as when I do things like make a line of three platforms all touching each other.

[Pendergast891]

so bug pathfinding takes them the path that has the shortest amount of steps to get to their targets. Bug repellent makes steps that would cross them in bug pathfinding count as a lot more, but they'll still cross them no problem if the inflated step count is still the smallest

you cant just put a thin strip, you need to make it wide as well and in general the amount of time and ammo is usually not worth it. the best use case is on mule salvage missions and setting up custom choke points

[Sokaku]

I have done some testing with repellent platforms in Sandbox and there are a few basic considerations to use with them:

1. The repellent has a radius of about 1 platform width, which means it extends out from the edge of a platform by approximately 1/2 platform. This means that 2 platforms placed with a space <= 1 platform width will be treated like 3 connected platforms. Bugs will not cross the middle. Wider than 1 platform and bugs will start to path find through the middle though in groups some will go around due to pathfinding collisions. This can be a good tactic to use to spread out enemies, or avoid when you want to concentrate them. (I.e. leave a wide center opening so bugs avoid the edges where platforms are, for concentrating bugs for a fatboy for example.) At higher hazards this can be more effective than a LURE which can cap out on bugs pretty fast.

2. The maximum width that bugs will circumvent is around 5 platforms wide. or think of it this way, the furthest a bug will deviate due to repellent is about 2.5 platforms either side. Any more and they will cross the repellent,

3. Standing on a repellent platform including those within 1 platform width from another platform will see bugs ignore any platforms considered in the path to reach you.

So to get the most out of repellent:
A) Avoid standing on any platform when defending, or be sure that your funnelling platforms are at least a full platform away from yours or any others that might be within 1 platform width.

B) Space out 2 platforms instead of laying 3 in a row. This saves you platform ammo and in the case of using them as a ledge above to funnel to the sides (I.e. into prox mines) it still affords you a field of view and field of fire.

C) The maximum length of a platform segment should be 3 spaced out platforms, or 5 connected ones. Leave a gap of over a full platform width between segments. Often I find 2 spaced out platforms provides a good coverage such as using platforms to the sides of Doretta spaced out with mines on either end. Bugs won't cross the center. If your segments are too long or too close together they will be ignored.

The 1 platform width rule is also good to know when parkouring / bridging. Always aim to leave more than 1 platform width gap between areas you don't want bugs to cross. Bug pathfinding will cross ~1 platform width of open air.

To test platform repellent behaviour you can use Sandbox Mod, or simply fire up a Haz 1 game like Egg Hunt and use Molly. Molly uses bug pathfinding including repellent behaviour. Set up a repellent obstacle, call her to one side starting position, then move to the destination and call her over. She will pathfind the same as the bugs.

[Shurenai]

Repellant foam adds an artificial amount of steps to any bug that attempts to pathfind over it, Bugs will always prefer the shortest path even if that means walking over repellant foam, as Pender covered.

Iirc the area the platform effects is a bit larger than the platform itself, and it it doubles the steps required to path over the platform for each platform in range.

Also of note is that, if I remember correctly, if any player is standing on ANY repellant foam platform, the bugs will ignore repellant foam completely.

It definitely DOES work, But it also takes a lot of trial and error and practice to get it right, to be able to do it efficiently with less platforms, to know when and where you should be placing platforms, etc.

https://youtu.be/-RruE9tf6ic
This video covers some of the mechanics and potential use cases, His placement isn't perfect by any stretch and he uses a lot more platforms than he really needs to. But he does cover some important concepts.

Seriously though, Just spend a few missions practicing, and remember you never want to leave the bugs NO path to the target or they'll just ignore the platforms entirely.

It's a bit of an art, But absolutely worth mastering.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by Sokaku:

Molly uses bug pathfinding including repellent behaviour [...] She will pathfind the same as the bugs.

Really? That sort of stupid programming really makes me "want to punch the guys in R & D!" (Well, except for the part where it's a useful way to test repellant as you suggested.)

[Chibbity]

Repellent is one of, if not the strongest abilities Engineer has; it's more of an art than a science though.

[Ulmace]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Originally posted by Sokaku:

Molly uses bug pathfinding including repellent behaviour [...] She will pathfind the same as the bugs.

Really? That sort of stupid programming really makes me "want to punch the guys in R & D!" (Well, except for the part where it's a useful way to test repellant as you suggested.)

Molly and Bosco seems to be programmed with the behavior of a service dog.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by Ulmace:

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Really? That sort of stupid programming really makes me "want to punch the guys in R & D!" (Well, except for the part where it's a useful way to test repellant as you suggested.)

Molly and Bosco seems to be programmed with the behavior of a service dog.

I like dogs. Please don't insult them like that.

For one thing, my dog was very good at watching our reactions to things and trying to learn from it, and altering her behavior on many many occasions. By comparison, unlike dogs and many chess programs, I strongly suspect that none of the non-player characters in this game have any learning capability whatsoever.

If I suspected otherwise, I might try to whack Molly with the pickaxe everytime she parks herself on wall at a height too high for me to deposit into her. But I don't suspect she can learn, so I'm not going to bother.

[Aimee]

A video would probably explain and show it better than any essay could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RruE9tf6ic

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by Aimee:

A video would probably explain and show it better than any essay could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RruE9tf6ic

Thanks, but I really liked the first two responses, but stopped watching this video a little way in.

I want to learn more about how this game works, but I was afraid it might go into the type of specific strategies that I personally don't like to get from a professional streamer on a YouTube Video. My first choice is to figure out stuff my myself,. Learning it by watching teammates isn't as creative, but at least it's "social."

[Aratorin]

Do they affect Mactera or Jellyfish at all?

Also, how do the people who make these videos seem to be able to replay the exact same scenario over and over?

[BaronVonNapking]

But my ammo...

[Ulmace]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

If I suspected otherwise, I might try to whack Molly with the pickaxe everytime she parks herself on wall at a height too high for me to deposit into her. But I don't suspect she can learn, so I'm not going to bother.

I hope this doesnt mean you teach your dog things by wacking her with a stick.

[Lord Of War]

Skill issue

[phenir]

Originally posted by Aratorin:

Do they affect Mactera or Jellyfish at all?

Also, how do the people who make these videos seem to be able to replay the exact same scenario over and over?

Probably not
I'm sure mods allow for seeded missions or custom made maps. Some maps always have similar start areas. Elimination and eggs always start in one small room with several exits.

[Ulmace]

Originally posted by Aratorin:

Do they affect Mactera or Jellyfish at all?

Also, how do the people who make these videos seem to be able to replay the exact same scenario over and over?

Mactera have to fly lower to be able to hit you if you use the platforms as a roof. I havent seen their pathing be affected by platforms on the ground.