I really want a Mini-Map !

[battlezoby]

I very much want an optional mini-map, preferable one you can toggle on and off with one key/botton press. I'm dsylexic, so it's very hard to comprehend and keep track of the map, and being able to constantly see how my movement affects my position on the map would be extremely helpful.

Guessing there isn't a way to enable one, is there?

Also, is there a good place to post to try to encourage the developers to add one?

I also want to try to see if I can have my friend watch on a 2nd monitor and try to give me directions. (She's too clumsy in 3D graphics worlds to play her own dwarf, but maybe I'll try to get her to try.) But if there was a constant minimap up in the corner, it would certainly help a lot. Having to constantly stop and have her (or even myself) look at the map is a real pain in the brain.

Also, I love making my own tunnels. But so far, it's pretty had to keep track of how far I've done and what level I'm at... with a minimap I could much more easily make sure that a tunnel exists to the floor-level of the new cavern, rather than creating a cliff to die off of, or arguably worse, going above or below it and just making a really messy maze that goes nowhere.

Thanks.

[battlezoby]

BTW... I keep thinking about how much this games copied from Borderlands 2, but I just realized it's mapping technology is stuck a Borderland-Original. Isn't it time to update it?

The original Borderlands simply has a compass at the top, and a pop-up map you can turn on and off. Except for the siloettes on the H.U.D, and 3D aspect of the map, that's what this game does.

But the option to put up a live mini-map in the corner (I think most people expect and prefer the upper-right) would help bring this game closer to Borderlands 2 standards.

To any multiplayer players who claim the lack of mini-map is better, let me ask you this: Do you really prefer teammates who stand around at look at maps, or would you rather they were actually going somewhere and/or doing something while looking at the map?

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Minimap would not be able to accurately render complex map Afaik. Also, this game is nothing like Borderlands.

[Smetrix]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

BTW... I keep thinking about how much this games copied from Borderlands 2, but I just realized it's mapping technology is stuck a Borderland-Original. Isn't it time to update it?

The original Borderlands simply has a compass at the top, and a pop-up map you can turn on and off. Except for the siloettes on the H.U.D, and 3D aspect of the map, that's what this game does.

But the option to put up a live mini-map in the corner (I think most people expect and prefer the upper-right) would help bring this game closer to Borderlands 2 standards.

To any multiplayer players who claim the lack of mini-map is better, let me ask you this: Do you really prefer teammates who stand around at look at maps, or would you rather they were actually going somewhere and/or doing something while looking at the map?

A big part of the mini map is being able to rotate it in all directions, and personally, it would be one too many things to add to the hud. Maybe as a mod.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Minimap would not be able to accurately render complex map Afaik.

It wouldn't need to show the entire map to make it easier for my friend help me keep track of where I'm going.

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Also, this game is nothing like Borderlands.

You mean aside from general FPS 3D shooter interface, the wide range of weapons, the leveling of the characters, the multiple classes of characters, the Engineers' turrets, the fact that we have shields that are indicated in blue above our health in red and that you don't lose health until your shield, which you can eventually upgrade, is depleted, the perks that accumilate in order to help each class, and the fact that it's a Steam Game that limits multiplayer play to exactly 4 players?

Oh... and as I already said, it has the Rotating Compass at the top, with the map being displayed at the center of the screen on demand? (Again.. that's how original Borderlands works, but not B2.)

Honestly, I'm pretty sure there are other similarities, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Am I wrong?

UPDATE: Both are Sci-fi Genre, and both have big vicious bug monsters that attack you(*).

---

* - Although not predominently in B2 because there are so many other enemies, but B2 does have a good number of bug monsters although so/many may be limited to side-missions and/or DLC.

[Smetrix]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Minimap would not be able to accurately render complex map Afaik.

It wouldn't need to show the entire map to make it easier for my friend help me keep track of where I'm going.

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Also, this game is nothing like Borderlands.

You mean aside from general FPS 3D shooter interface, the wide range of weapons, the leveling of the characters, the multiple classes of characters, the Engineers' turrets, the fact that we have shields that are indicated in blue above our health in red and that you don't lose health until your shield, which you can eventually upgrade, is depleted, the perks that accumilate in order to help each class, and the fact that it's a Steam Game that limits multiplayer play to exactly 4 players?

Oh... and as I already said, it has the Rotating Compass at the top, with the map being displayed at the center of the screen on demand? (Again.. that's how original Borderlands works, but not B2.)

Honestly, I'm pretty sure there are other similarities, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Am I wrong?

UPDATE: Both are Sci-fi Genre.

Borderlands did not invent any of those things lol.

Borderlands is a looter shooter, DRG is not, aside from the movement and some visuals, that’s pretty much where the similarities end.

[battlezoby]

In response to my saying that this game and Bordlerlands are similar:

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Borderlands did not invent any of those things lol.

Relavence? Are you implying that if I own an Anvil-brand 16oz model N-H16CAV Hammer and if you owned an Anvil-brand 16oz model N-H16CAV Hammer, that the two hammers wouldn't be similar to each other because neither of us invented them?

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Borderlands is a looter shooter, DRG is not, aside from the movement and some visuals, that’s pretty much where the similarities end.

Um... Deeprock has similar but limited look, and shooting of AI Bug Enemies.

Was I wrong about the other similarities? Oh... In B2 you collect that weird purple Mineral, Euridium I think. Oh... and it has caverns, and egg-searching quests.

[Vault Traveler]

fastest derail in the west.

Also no I actually dont want a mini map.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Originally posted by battlezoby:

It wouldn't need to show the entire map to make it easier for my friend help me keep track of where I'm going.

You mean aside from general FPS 3D shooter interface, the wide range of weapons, the leveling of the characters, the multiple classes of characters, the Engineers' turrets, the fact that we have shields that are indicated in blue above our health in red and that you don't lose health until your shield, which you can eventually upgrade, is depleted, the perks that accumilate in order to help each class, and the fact that it's a Steam Game that limits multiplayer play to exactly 4 players?

Oh... and as I already said, it has the Rotating Compass at the top, with the map being displayed at the center of the screen on demand? (Again.. that's how original Borderlands works, but not B2.)

Honestly, I'm pretty sure there are other similarities, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Am I wrong?

UPDATE: Both are Sci-fi Genre.

Borderlands did not invent any of those things lol.

Borderlands is a looter shooter, DRG is not, aside from the movement and some visuals, that’s pretty much where the similarities end.

Pretty much this. The differences are what make the two games not comparable, otherwise theres a whole bunch of games that you might as well start comparing it to.

That said, on the topic: I'm not sure what a minimap would do that specifically gives benefit over the current one? The caves generated are complex, 3D environments with multiple objectives and holes. The player has the tab(let) specifically to show off all those details, which a minimap would not be able to adequately portray with inclines, pockets, secrets, and etc in 2D. As per pausing to navigate, well, refer to my original points: the game is designed around you carefully navigating said caves with all their nuances and difficulties. Its not really a huge issue to quickly scan with Tab, or let the driller drill directly into the muddy cave connectors either, they're explicitly there to clue in the players about cave connections.

Thankfully, Hazard levels below 3 let you kinda goof around without having to worry about bugs, so take the time you need to read the map carefully. I'm not really sure if theres a proper solution to uh...what I assume you meant is some sort of visual dyslexia?

[Smetrix]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

In response to my saying that this game and Bordlerlands are similar:

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Borderlands did not invent any of those things lol.

Relavence? Are you implying that if I own an Anvil-brand 16oz model N-H16CAV Hammer and if you owned an Anvil-brand 16oz model N-H16CAV Hammer, that the two hammers wouldn't be similar to each other because neither of us invented them?

These are video games, not hammers lol, bit of a false equivalence there.

As for the relevance? You tell me, you’re the one making comparisons here lol. Regardless, I thought this was about mini maps?

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Also no I actually dont want a mini map.

Thanks for pointing that out, because I definitely don't want the dev's to force one on you.

I want an optional mini-map that you can toggle on or off. I've updated my OP to reflect that.

---

Originally posted by Smetrix:

These are video games, not hammers lol, bit of a false equivalence there.

My point was that you said Borderlands didn't invent any of the things I said were similar. I wanted to know what having invented something has to do with them being similar or not, because you brought that up. But on the other hand, this is going very off-topic, so I sent you a friend request, as I'd rather continue that off-topic subject not on this thread.

The only on-topic relavence I can think of though is that while you're making it sound like I'm trying to discuss something like patent-infringement, where who-invented-what might matter, I'm actually doing the exact opposite. I was implying, and hereby saying, that Borderlands did a lot of cool stuff that isn't patented, that this game copied them and made a pretty good game out of them; Borderlands then updated to Borderlands 2 and added a Mini-map and that I wish this game would also add a mini-map, abiet, and optional one that can be toggled off.

[Vandal Savant]

I prefer the lack of it because it helps sell the lonely darkness of the caves, where staying together feels all the more imperative. If I knew at all times where I was, that feeling would be gone. It'd also dampen the illusion behind cave generation, because it's really just a selection of cave/tunnel layouts plugged into each other, and being able to readily identify them even more than I already can would make them feel even more samey-er.

In general I also like that the terrain scanner has just enough detail to it to be useful, and it leaves the rest of the navigation up to player experience.

Originally posted by battlezoby:

I also want to try to see if I can have my friend watch on a 2nd monitor and try to give me directions. (She's too clumsy in 3D graphics worlds to play her own dwarf, but maybe I'll try to get her to try.)

It's possible that she doesn't just have enough experience and confidence with first-person games, nor has developed muscle memory for keyboard/mouse controls in them. If you want to fix that, consider playing something slower-paced like Portal 2 co-op mode with her to help her get comfortable with FPS controls. Portal in general is a wonderful introduction for people who have little/no prior video game experience, and can help them get used to aiming and moving simultaneously.

[King Fossil]

borderlands invented classes
borderlands invented four player coop
borderlands invented first person shooting
borderlands invented video games

Anyway, minimap won't work because the game has too much verticality so it's really hard to read without being able to turn it. 3d environments hard.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by Vandal Savant:

I prefer the lack of it because it helps sell the lonely darkness of the caves, where staying together feels all the more imperative. If I knew at all times where I was, that feeling would be gone.

I can emphasize with that, but being dsylexic, adding a mini-map wouldn't at all change the fact that I still wouldn't "know where I was at all times." I'd still be confused and pretty lost, but maybe less so, and I'd probably have a play-experience that was more similar to what you have now.

I also like following the other players in multi-player. A mini-map would make it easier for me to actually stay with them and get back to them if we get seperated. As I mentioned before, I'm pretty sure most other players would prefer me to moving around doing stuff, perhaps including trying to get back to them, rather than having me stand in one place reading a map so I keep re-opening a map as I go.

BTW... If I stay with this game long term, and I suspect and hope that I will, I'm sure I'll get better at stuff like following other players and guessing how the cave is laid out. But I'd also pretty certainly I'll continue to want an optional mini-map. (And I'm not just saying "optional" for the sake of people who hate the idea, even I don't want it ALWAYS blocking my view of the cave behind where-ever it would appear. It would be nice to turn it off as well as being able to turn it on in the first place.)

[Smetrix]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Originally posted by Smetrix:

Also no I actually dont want a mini map.

Thanks for pointing that out, because I definitely don't want the dev's to force one on you.

I want an optional mini-map that you can toggle on or off. I've updated my OP to reflect that.

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Originally posted by Smetrix:

These are video games, not hammers lol, bit of a false equivalence there.

My point was that you said Borderlands didn't invent any of the things I said were similar. I wanted to know what having invented something has to do with them being similar or not, because you brought that up.

Originally posted by battlezoby:

BTW... I keep thinking about how much this games copied from Borderlands 2

Originally posted by battlezoby:

But the option to put up a live mini-map in the corner (I think most people expect and prefer the upper-right) would help bring this game closer to Borderlands 2 standards.

Literally the top of the page lol, and no, I will gain nothing from taking this into a private discussion, so that’s a pass from me.

Was not opposed to a minimap, but given how all maps are procedurally generated, unlike Borderlands, it would not work well, refer to Fountaineer’s response for reasons why.

[battlezoby]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

I'm not sure what a minimap would do that specifically gives benefit over the current one

Among other things:
A) I could keep moving while looking at it.

B) My friend could help me navigate without my having to keep turning the map on and off, which will probably give me a head-ache.

There's also "C" which some people probably don't realize because there isn't one to try out:
C) In addition to our depth perception which comes from have 2 eyes that point in overlapping directions, we get our sense of 3-perspective from way things translate with movement. That's part of the reason you rotate the current paused-map in real time, to get a sense of what's where in 3D. But while you can Zoom and Spin that map, you can't actually MOVE while that map is open. Movement would help me "see" the 3D better, and I suspect would help other people who decide to do so find their way around as well.

And more specific to myself and people with similar "learning disabilities":

D) I'm dsylexic (and A.D.D.) Both make it hard to keep track of what's where both when the map is open, and moreso after it closes. I can literally look at the map, and see that I want to go somewhere to the left of where I am, and then turn right due to dsylexia and not know I'm going in the wrong direction! With a live minimap, it would be a whole lot easier to see I'm going in the wrong direction, because I could see where I am and where I want to go becoming further apart. And it's not just limited to the first turn, which I've gotten a lot better at after a lot of practice with both Borderlands, B2, WoW, and others. Every other turn, even on 2D maps is more likely to be in the direction I want to go in if I have a live mini-map to refer to.