M1000 Classic

[Bongoboy]

I Love Sniper Rifles.But for some reason I do not like the M1000 Classic in Deep Rock Galactic.

Reason no1: it doesn't do enough damage. A Focused Shot should ... kill any and all of the normal enemies, that being Glyphid Grunt and Glyphid Grunt Slasher, ... Glyphid Grunt Guard's should be close to death.

Reason no2: that Focused Shot should not take more ammo to shoot. Focused Shot already has a charge time which also makes you run slower.

The next thing I dislike is there is no Overclock I like.

• Hoverclock - Nice utility, which has some uses.
  
• Minimal Clips - Not bad, but seriously +16 max ammo? And reloading is not really the big problem.
  
• Active Stability System - This is not bad either, but you loose some of what you want, Focus Shot Damage Bonus.
  
• Hipster - This is one of the worst ... If this would make the M1000 Classic shoot in full auto Mode like the Drillers Automatic Fire overclock fine, but this one makes my carpal tunnel rub grin with glee (a problem that is shared by the Drillers Experimental Plasma Charger)
  
• Supercooling Chamber - With this one we get somewhere. This is not that bad as it raises Focus Shot Damage but it limits what you are already tight on ... ammunition, not to forget that now Focus Shot Charge Time is longer ... and those are already not too fast.
  
• Electrocuting Focus Shots - This one here is actually not bad. You hit a target and that then runs slower and takes 48 damage over 4 seconds. The problem is it also lowers direct Focus Shot Damage Bonus again.

My main problem is that if a OC is interesting, it always lowers the direct damage Focus Shots do and/or reduce the maximum amount of ammo I can carry. Both are a no-go for me as I am already tight on ammo as is with those huge swarms. And the Double Barreled or Zhukov Nuk17's can not catch that ... though the Zhukov Nuk19 is close to being able.

What do you guys say to this? What is your experience? I would love to hear your input on this, if you regulary play Scout with the M1000 Classic ... feel free to enlighten me. I try my hardest to like this Rifle, but all of the Overclocks feel meh to me.

[DJDiceZ]

M1000 is the weapon i've used the most in this game, with Hoverclock. I like it a lot, i usually like snipers. I think it's a bit too ammo hungry and could use a tiny boost, but it's still pretty strong, with the right upgrades you SHOULD be able to kill every medium grunts in the body with one charged shot (or a normal weakspot shot), and every medium elites with a weakspot charged shot.

Make sure you aim for weakspot, get weakspot damage, and whatever boost you can have for the charged shots. I also strongly recommend the reload fast after a kill. It's not super strong, but it gets the job done for the class as scout is not meant to be a dps or swarm clearing dwarf, you're more so meant to take out long range and special units, provide support, utility, light, clear up the caves of its ores, save the mission when everybody died, and revive teammates with unmatched mobility that makes you functionally invincible if you use it well.

I can still clear a swarm with it with relative ease and i don't have the issue of not oneshotting medium enemies, unless i miss the weakspot.

Akimbo smgs with piercing and weakspot damage take care of what the M1000 can't just fine, even at mid range if you burst fire. Get the speed boost at the end of the clip to kite paired with the quick reload. It's a GODSEND.

Pair all of this with an ice grenade for panic moments and making up for the damage you lack (use normal shots or smgs). Basically my build. Works in Haz 5, solo or mp, except solo salvage, that's hell for scout.

[Ailen]

It's already fine. I use it over GK2 at any time. Suggested features just gonna make it OP.

[Ailen]

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

The Damage of the M1000 Classic is fine but in Deep Rock Galactic there is the Resupply mechanic. That refill 50% of your Max Ammunition. Which means having a higher Max Ammunition is highly beneficial.

What they would need to do, is overthink the M1000 Classic's Overclocks and possibly allow through Modifications and Overclocks to gear the gun more towards Hip Firing, or Focus Shots ... or allow a playstyle that mixes both.
But one thing it needs definitely is more Max Ammunition.

"Donut☆님이 먼저 게시:

First of all, it's not a sniper. It's a rifle.

As someone who often plays with snipers or single shot precision weapons in games, I think the M1000 is not thát bad. But everytime I play with it I feel like, 'I could have done this just as easy (or easier) with the Deepcore.

And when I play deepcore there almost never is a situation where I think 'M1000 would have been nice here'.

The M1000 is ok as a rifle, but playing with it feels more like using a really fancy handgun.

Yeah despite me complaining about the M1000 Classic's Sniping ability, I understand (and love) that it is a Rifle ...
But I do feel similar ... the Deepcore has so many great Overclocks, AI Engine, Gas Rerouting, Overclocked Firing Mechanism ... I never feel like the M1000 Classic would have been better, or equal.

Pixie님이 먼저 게시:

I like it as a semi auto rifle. There is no place for a true sniper rifle in this game. Almost everything is at close or medium range. It is good for the range that is in this game. You can use focus to pick off spitballers at range and to one-shot macteria, and just use it as semi auto for everything else. I run 2-2-2-2-3 with hoverclock and find it much more effective than the deepcore. It's better at sniping things from range and spam fire on dreadnaught weakspots etc massively outclasses the deepcore, even with the 80-140% damage overclock on the deepcore. Even for hoards of grunts I prefer it to the deepcore, you just have to be precise and aim for the heads. It's really satisfying. I almost exclusively play difficulty 5 and have no problem with it. On maps without tonnes of spiders I can often out-kill other classes.

Yeah, I think you are right. Deep Rock Galactics Caves are too narrow most of the time for a true Sniper Rifle.

Stepping back to take in the whole picture, I think the Focus Shots do enough damage and charge fast enough ... the main issue is the Max Ammunition ... more often then not I find myself low on Ammunition especially when you play 4 players at H4-H5 and have to deal with Huge Swarms.

So yeah do you M1000 Classic users run out of Ammunition allot?

I don't. Not only M1000 has more total damage than GK2 but also more DPS and super blowthrough rounds that effectively can at least double your total damage against swarm soldiers.

[CeLLXeNo]

The issue lies in the fact that GSG needs to limit the power-ammo tradeoff. A weapon cannot be super strong at single target in exchange for a small ammo pool because that would make difficult encounters trivial. On haz 5 the real challenge lies in dealing with big threats appropriately before they force you to reposition, which makes you vulneable to the smaller enemies. You used to be able to cheese higher hazards in various ways until they added the "bunker busters" like the detonator and oppressor. They also buffed praetorians a bunch of times.

Making this element of the game easier would return us to the early beta days when you could beat anything by tutling in advantageous terrain. This is one of the big reasons why the breach cutter is so absurdly overpowered right now, it can kill a big flock of praetorians, kill an oppressor, solo detonator or severely injure dreads in seconds while still being excellent at dealing with big crowds.


That being said the Rifle cannot be allowed to be too strong as a sniping weapon, which is not even what the weapon is intended to be. The weapon has excellent damage for a DMR and the ammo efficiency is way better than the GK, you can kill a lot more bugs before running dry, it is technically the best weapon in the hands of a patient and skilled player. The weapon is very slow and lining up shots in the heat of battle in not easy. It needs a faster base focus and slightly decreased recoil.

[Lunacy]

It takes 2 ammo for focus shots because it used to take 1 but you had 50 ammo and it did double damage.
They gave it like 80% more ammo, made focus shots take 2 ammo so that single shot spam was viable.

[MrPurple33]

I still really Like the M1000 - have a Fourth Relic one that Looks amazing

2 Legit complaints about it though--

1) I have all 6 OCs for it, and they don't do it for me- I still have Minimal Clips on it just so I have something, and with my Loadout I get 112 ammo - so it's useful at Least

Apparently the OC you want is the Supercooling Chamber, but it has too many negatives- so I just stick with my very good normal shooting skill

2) I always switched between the M1000 and the Deepcore AR depending on my mood - once you get the AI Stability OC though, it's no contest- the Deepcore becomes just as accurate Long Range, you can unload 1/2 a clip into the same spot, and way more ammo and versatility- not to mention all the other small things the AI Stability does for you

[Bongoboy]

Momotaros님이 먼저 게시:

Hipster is the only OC that works great with the M1000.
Curently I'm using the Hippy Burst Scout by Syncourt
you can watch his video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM0NNLpmKPo&t=273s&ab_channel=Syncourt
The video also teaches you how to play and use the M1000 with that build.
You don't lost much damange if you know how to land shots withou aiming and it gives the scout a pretty decent AoE ability plus a powerful shotgun to take down big enemies.

Yeah I played around some too. Hipster and Electrocuting Focus Shots are the only two Overclocks that seem vaguely interesting.
Thought you loose damage with Hipster, you can still play with it mainly on Focus Shots and the only reason it works is due to the Ammo increase it provides.

In this video you see that he struggles with Glyphid Spawn/[i[Glyphid Swarmer[/i] and Naedocyte Shocker/Naedocyte Hatchling the most. He also utilizes Melee Attacks allot ... you can do this with Electrocuting Focus Shots as well, you just shoot them once in the mouth and then switch target and either finish them off with the Off-hand weapon or a good melee hit.

It feels like, playing with the M1000 Classic is more of a challenge to yourself. You switch from a weapon, theDeepcore GK2, that can deal with almost anything thrown at you(Swarmer, Grunts, Preaetorians, Mactera annoyances) while still sporting a comfortable base Max Ammo of 350, which can be boosted to 450. Unless you use Gas Rerouting or Overclocked Firing Mechanism it will last pretty long, especially if you use AI Stability Engine and try to hit mouths.
With the M1000 Classic you have to hit mouths consistently, you have to either switch to the Offhand or use Melee to finish them off, or you will run out of Ammunition fast. The main issue I have so far is the Max Ammunition, if that Compact Ammo would give you more of a Max Ammunition boost(around 50) ... and drop the reduced Recoil that would be something.

DJDiceZ님이 먼저 게시:

M1000 is the weapon i've used the most in this game, with Hoverclock. I like it a lot, i usually like snipers. I think it's a bit too ammo hungry and could use a tiny boost, but it's still pretty strong, with the right upgrades you SHOULD be able to kill every medium grunts in the body with one charged shot (or a normal weakspot shot), and every medium elites with a weakspot charged shot.

Make sure you aim for weakspot, get weakspot damage, and whatever boost you can have for the charged shots.

I can still clear a swarm with it with relative ease and i don't have the issue of not oneshotting medium enemies, unless i miss the weakspot.

Yeah, I have the same feeling, that it is pretty Ammo Hungry, which could be solved with a Overclock.
As for killing medium Grunts with a Charged Focus body shot ... nope. On Hazard 4 not even when you are Solo, and hitting a spot without Armor on them. Imagine how hard it is trying to hit such sensible spots when 20 or so of them buggers swarming in front of you ... then you will use your Grappling Hook to kite them more then shoot them.

But that's the gameplay with the M1000 Classic, kiting and trying to go for the Weak Spot ... and that with a Rifle that is not meant as a pure Sniper Rifle ...

With the Zhukov NUK17 you could also use Tier 5 Conductive Bullets and then in swarms throw in a Inhibitor-Field Generator Grenade and your Zhukov NUK17 do +30% damage ... but that's more Spray and Pray then aiming.

CeLLXeNo님이 먼저 게시:

A weapon cannot be super strong at single target in exchange for a small ammo pool because that would make difficult encounters trivial.

I do not understand this sentence, so the M1000 Classic is not super strong in Single Target and has Low Max Ammunition?

But yeah I understand the dilemma GSG is in. If they make the M1000 Classic have lets say 200 Max Ammunition and give it a Mod that adds another 100 rounds, you could just destroy the Big enemies, while still having enough to deal with the small enemies.

Yeah I am aware of the Breach Cutter ... I do not think it is that good against anything bigger then a Glyphid Praetorian(which he strips of its armor completely) but that's just me.

Lunacy님이 먼저 게시:

It takes 2 ammo for focus shots because it used to take 1 but you had 50 ammo and it did double damage.
They gave it like 80% more ammo, made focus shots take 2 ammo so that single shot spam was viable.

Yeah, I think the biggest problem is the fact that Focus Shots gain such a big Damage Bonus. The only way to really balance this would be if Focus Shots by default would do normal damage ... and then add either a Mod or a Overclock that reduces Max Ammunition by 50% but increases Focus Shot damage by 100% ...
That would in the base setup, enforce Hip Shots and with that Mod/Overclock it would enforce Focus Shots.

MrPurple33님이 먼저 게시:

I still really Like the M1000 - have a Fourth Relic one that Looks amazing

2 Legit complaints about it though--

1) I have all 6 OCs for it, and they don't do it for me- I still have Minimal Clips on it just so I have something, and with my Loadout I get 112 ammo - so it's useful at Least

Apparently the OC you want is the Supercooling Chamber, but it has too many negatives- so I just stick with my very good normal shooting skill

2) I always switched between the M1000 and the Deepcore AR depending on my mood - once you get the AI Stability OC though, it's no contest- the Deepcore becomes just as accurate Long Range, you can unload 1/2 a clip into the same spot, and way more ammo and versatility- not to mention all the other small things the AI Stability does for you

I like the idea of the M1000 Classic too ... a Single Shot Rifle ... I like to be forced to hit Mouths ... and same for me, i Have all 6 Overclocks too ...
Hipster is not bad as it gives you a ton Max Ammunition and Focus Shots still are the better choice if you have the time to aim correctly ... but because of the reduced damage you have to still hit Weak Spots or you waste the added Ammo.
Electrocuting Focus Shots is pretty good but the it is not a Overclock for pure Focus Shots either since you loose some direct damage(and you are forced to pick up Killer Focus to not be under 100% Focus Shot damage).
Supercooling Chamber has just way way too many negative added things ... less ammo and slower focus and can't move ... I would deal with the latter two but lower ammo? ... no.

Yes I fully agree ... the Deepcore GK2 with AI Stability Engine is almost too good. Makes it shoot slower with close to pinpoint accuracy ... if a Swarm Grunts hits you ... you just hit mouth after mouth after mouth. And if a ton Swarmers or Naedocyte (the small flyers) come around ... no problem ... you pop them one at a time.

[DJDiceZ]

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah I played around some too. Hipster and Electrocuting Focus Shots are the only two Overclocks that seem vaguely interesting.
Thought you loose damage with Hipster, you can still play with it mainly on Focus Shots and the only reason it works is due to the Ammo increase it provides.

In this video you see that he struggles with Glyphid Spawn/[i[Glyphid Swarmer[/i] and Naedocyte Shocker/Naedocyte Hatchling the most. He also utilizes Melee Attacks allot ... you can do this with Electrocuting Focus Shots as well, you just shoot them once in the mouth and then switch target and either finish them off with the Off-hand weapon or a good melee hit.

It feels like, playing with the M1000 Classic is more of a challenge to yourself. You switch from a weapon, theDeepcore GK2, that can deal with almost anything thrown at you(Swarmer, Grunts, Preaetorians, Mactera annoyances) while still sporting a comfortable base Max Ammo of 350, which can be boosted to 450. Unless you use Gas Rerouting or Overclocked Firing Mechanism it will last pretty long, especially if you use AI Stability Engine and try to hit mouths.

Electrocuting Focus Shots isn't that good. You'll have the medium units killed before it does anything, and you can take care of big units fast enough that stunning them isn't that relevant. Well, that's without EFS, otherwise you lose damage and take even longer to kill them.
Hoverclock is a good overclock for the utility it provides. If you become good with it, it can significantly help you stay alive during swarms and get to tricky spots. Almost becomes a makeshift zipline for the scout.

They were only struggling with the small enemies because they are using the shotgun. You have to use the dual smgs for them, since they compensate for what the M1000 lacks. Why would i want the shotgun when the whole purpose of M1000 is already to take down big targets? I'd rather have something that can take of swarmers/grunts, while my M1000 easily deals with anything that is medium or heavy.

M1000 isn't a challenge to yourself, it's a different playstyle, and it fits some people. Doing the most damage isn't all there is to the game.

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah, I have the same feeling, that it is pretty Ammo Hungry, which could be solved with a Overclock.
As for killing medium Grunts with a Charged Focus body shot ... nope. On Hazard 4 not even when you are Solo, and hitting a spot without Armor on them. Imagine how hard it is trying to hit such sensible spots when 20 or so of them buggers swarming in front of you ... then you will use your Grappling Hook to kite them more then shoot them.

Either you're doing something wrong, or you're being disingenuous, because that's totally false. I can kill grunts in one focused body shot on Haz5, in solo or 4 man teams. One unfocused mouth shot works too. One focused mouth shot kills any special grunts (eg: slashers) because it does 365 damage.

Always have been able to, but to further confirms it, i went out of my way to test it and it works fine.

A 20 grunt swarms is something you should come out without breaking a sweat with the M1000. The biggest issue is that it is tight on ammo, and perhaps a bit slow to charge the focused shot.

A 2/1/1/2/3 M1000 with any overclock(hoverclock) that doesn't reduce damage and decent aim is all you need. Playing without blowthrough rounds is a valid playstyle, as taking out dangerous targets instantly is just as valuable as doing non-lethal aoe on a hard to line up shot. And you usually DON'T want to be in a situation where you CAN line up 4 grunts, unless you're on a choke with fellow dwarves. Better have 10 full hp grunts than 20 half hp grunts.

[Bongoboy]

DJDiceZ님이 먼저 게시:

Electrocuting Focus Shots isn't that good. You'll have the medium units killed before it does anything, and you can take care of big units fast enough that stunning them isn't that relevant. Well, that's without EFS, otherwise you lose damage and take even longer to kill them.
Hoverclock is a good overclock for the utility it provides. If you become good with it, it can significantly help you stay alive during swarms and get to tricky spots. Almost becomes a makeshift zipline for the scout.

They were only struggling with the small enemies because they are using the shotgun. You have to use the dual smgs for them, since they compensate for what the M1000 lacks. Why would i want the shotgun when the whole purpose of M1000 is already to take down big targets? I'd rather have something that can take of swarmers/grunts, while my M1000 easily deals with anything that is medium or heavy.

M1000 isn't a challenge to yourself, it's a different playstyle, and it fits some people. Doing the most damage isn't all there is to the game.[/quoteYeah I would not use the SHotgun in combo with the M1000 Classic. The Zhukov NUK17 is a better choice, as it deals with almost everything up close.

DJDiceZ님이 먼저 게시:

Either you're doing something wrong, or you're being disingenuous, because that's totally false. I can kill grunts in one focused body shot on Haz5, in solo or 4 man teams. One unfocused mouth shot works too. One focused mouth shot kills any special grunts (eg: slashers) because it does 365 damage.

I do not know what game you play ... but it isn't the Deep Rock Galactic I have installed here. Body Shooting a Grunt where his armor is does not kill him, period.

I just ran a solo H4 mission, used a M1000 Classic without any Modifications or Overclocks ... no if you hit the bug anywhere where he has Armor ... you will not kill him in one Focus Shot body shot.
50 damage plus 100% Focus Shot damage do not kill a Grunt with a body shot. So unless you take damage increasing things like Increased Caliber Rounds and Killer Focus ... maybe even Super Cooling Chamber you will not Body One Shot Grunts even in solo ... not to speak of 4 player where they have more health.

Weak Spot shots are another thing, but I doubt u kill a grunt with a Hip Fired Mouth Shot in 4 player.

DJDiceZ님이 먼저 게시:

A 20 grunt swarms is something you should come out without breaking a sweat with the M1000. The biggest issue is that it is tight on ammo, and perhaps a bit slow to charge the focused shot.

Which is the main point I made multiple times by now, the tightness on Ammo. I do not complain about how much Damage the M1000 Classic does ... or how slow the Focus Shot charge is ... I complain about that 96 (128 with Expanded Ammo Bags) ammo are tight ... and there is no real good Overclock that gives you ammo without taking away huge chunks of Focus Shot damage.
Minimal Clips with its +16 Max Ammo is a complete disappointed, compared to the green Overclock's other classes have.

[0ptimistPrime (the Gray)]

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

(broken post)

"...Doing the most damage isn't all there is to the game.[/quoteYeah I would not use the SHotgun..."

just FYI, that's what broke your post. I'd personally recommend fixing, but your call

EDIT:

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

I do not know what game you play ... but it isn't the Deep Rock Galactic I have installed here. Body Shooting a Grunt where his armor is does not kill him, period.

I just ran a solo H4 mission, used a M1000 Classic without any Modifications or Overclocks ... no if you hit the bug anywhere where he has Armor ... you will not kill him in one Focus Shot body shot.
50 damage plus 100% Focus Shot damage do not kill a Grunt with a body shot. So unless you take damage increasing things like Increased Caliber Rounds and Killer Focus ... maybe even Super Cooling Chamber you will not Body One Shot Grunts even in solo ... not to speak of 4 player where they have more health.

You've confused yourself, and are arguing a point nobody was making.
You just said that you're talking about using M1000 without any upgrades, but the quote from DJDiceZ that you initially responded to specifically had said:

with the right upgrades you SHOULD be able to kill every medium grunts in the body with one charged shot (or a normal weakspot shot), and every medium elites with a weakspot charged shot.

And ^ that is accurate. You can kill grunts at Haz 5 with one focused body shot, or one hipfire shot to the head.

[DJDiceZ]

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

I just ran a solo H4 mission, used a M1000 Classic without any Modifications or Overclocks ... no if you hit the bug anywhere where he has Armor ... you will not kill him in one Focus Shot body shot.
50 damage plus 100% Focus Shot damage do not kill a Grunt with a body shot. So unless you take damage increasing things like Increased Caliber Rounds and Killer Focus ... maybe even Super Cooling Chamber you will not Body One Shot Grunts even in solo ... not to speak of 4 player where they have more health.

Wait, who cares about the damage of a weapon mod-less? Completely irrelevant to the discussion. The upgrades are an integral part of the strenghts of a weapon. You can't complain a weapon isn't strong enough if you don't use its upgrades. Especially if you compare it to overclocked weapons.

That's like complaining that a lvl 1 character can't take Haz 5 with double XP in a discussion about the top tier solo dwarf build.

[Nameless]

The M1000 classic really sucks honestly. I barely see anyone use it and the ones that I do see use it are always going down and has barely any of the kills compared to a Scout using the Deepcore rifle. The overclocks for it don't fit well either unless you are doing some sort of personal challenge I guess. I unlocked every single overclock for that thing and it still isn't that fun to use compared to the Deepcore. Like I get it, you want something new to have fun with to mix things up so things don't go stale but if they were the last ones alive in some freak accident, I would not expect them to make a comeback with a horde of bugs around them while using that M1000. Feels like the Scout's secondaries do a way better job at killing things compared to the M1000 classic. Sucks too since I really liked the idea of that gun and how it looks.

[ONI]

Typhoon님이 먼저 게시:

The M1000 classic really sucks honestly. I barely see anyone use it and the ones that I do see use it are always going down and has barely any of the kills compared to a Scout using the Deepcore rifle. The overclocks for it don't fit well either unless you are doing some sort of personal challenge I guess. I unlocked every single overclock for that thing and it still isn't that fun to use compared to the Deepcore. Like I get it, you want something new to have fun with to mix things up so things don't go stale but if they were the last ones alive in some freak accident, I would not expect them to make a comeback with a horde of bugs around them while using that M1000. Feels like the Scout's secondaries do a way better job at killing things compared to the M1000 classic. Sucks too since I really liked the idea of that gun and how it looks.

I guess you haven't played with me

[King Fossil]

Lithariel님이 먼저 게시:

I do not understand what you tried to say with this sentence, care to explain? Do you mean that a spammy M1000 Classic build is better then a Deepcore GK2?
All I can say is, I run more then well with Deepcore GK2 - AI Stability Engine ... the damage is more then enough.

AI engine is bad because it hurts your damage/rof. M1 with the recoil upgrade is already extremely controllable and is far more killy.
AR is better than M1 against swarmers but that's about it. And you can usually pickaxe swarmers no problem. The only time they're an issue is when they're in a giant group and in that case you should probably just grapple over to the driller and let him kill them all instantly. Or the gunner if he's going autocannon.

DJDiceZ님이 먼저 게시:

Electrocuting Focus Shots isn't that good. You'll have the medium units killed before it does anything, and you can take care of big units fast enough that stunning them isn't that relevant. Well, that's without EFS, otherwise you lose damage and take even longer to kill them.

It's good on a spam build. Most of the time you play like a normal minimal clips build would, but if you want you can electrocute big enemies with charge shots. The damage penalty doesn't matter since you're only use charge shots for the status anyway.

[Mochan]

Focused Shot builds are trash in this game, unfortunately.

Ghostship really needs to revert the nerfs to the sniper builds. M1000 is only good for hipfire builds. Using it as a sniper rifle is just handicapping yourself for no mechanical gain. Fun to do, but you are going to be even weaker than you already are.