Second wind viability - is it really useful?

[Syncourt]

Since the base speed was increased and second wind reduced to 12% just in order to maintain the top sprinting speed available through the perk, this seems to have made the perk completely unviable.

You now get a 7.2 second time advantage per minute (not even counting the 4 second delay). So in a typical half hour mission, if you sprinted through the entire thing (which is impossible), that'd be saving you 3m 20s. Realistically though you're going to be saving something like 1-2m in total - at most - and less than 5 seconds per stretch.

Personally, I found it hard to find much if any real benefit to it even when it was 20% increase, but now it's even worse. What do you guys think? Can it be fixed or made viable in some way? Or do you still actually use it for some meaningful reason?

I'd kind of want to say just add it as an extra bonus on Dash if it must be keep, but I already think dash is pretty powerful on it's own accord and doesn't need any extra incentive to take. Then again, the second wind bonus really isn't going to change much.

Maybe it could be a bonus passive effect only when dash isn't on cooldown?

I couldn't even care if it were completely removed at this point to be honest.

[koan]

It's bad. It's on the same level as "It's a Bug Thing" imo. Some people still like it though, so there's no reason to remove it. It adds to the difficulty of decision for some.

[phittte]

Yes, I noticed immediately that this perk was nerfed into the ground by the hotfix. Personally I liked it before, while it was no life saver it allowed you to traverse long passages and large rooms very quickly.

Now it's not even useful for that anymore. On one hand dwarves are generally faster so you don't need the speed boost as much, on the other hand the speed boost the perk gives was almost cut in half (percentage wise, which is all that matters). It's just crap now.

In my opinion they could increase the speed boost to 15% and decrease the cooldown to 3 seconds. I doubt this would be overpowered. The perk wasn't op before and bugs are faster as well now.

Alternatively they could change the whole thing to something different. How about a speed increase of 10% only, a cooldown of 3 seconds and when the effect activates it stuns enemies in a very small radius (like 2-3 meters) so it helps you escape? Or it stuns enemies in a 90° cone behind you (also up to 3 meters away from you).

But whatever they do, they need to change it.

[SuperDean]

Originally posted by phittte:

Yes, I noticed immediately that this perk was nerfed into the ground by the hotfix. Personally I liked it before, while it was no life saver it allowed you to traverse long passages and large rooms very quickly.

Now it's not even useful for that anymore. On one hand dwarves are generally faster so you don't need the speed boost as much, on the other hand the speed boost the perk gives was almost cut in half (percentage wise, which is all that matters). It's just crap now.

In my opinion they could increase the speed boost to 15% and decrease the cooldown to 3 seconds. I doubt this would be overpowered. The perk wasn't op before and bugs are faster as well now.

Alternatively they could change the whole thing to something different. How about a speed increase of 10% only, a cooldown of 3 seconds and when the effect activates it stuns enemies in a very small radius (like 2-3 meters) so it helps you escape? Or it stuns enemies in a 90° cone behind you (also up to 3 meters away from you).

But whatever they do, they need to change it.

+1

[RaNdOmKiLs666]

Should just rename the perk to "Blitz": Increases reload speed by 20%. Also increases your sprint speed by 15% after you've been sprinting for 3 seconds.

This would make it dual purpose, thus making it better overall.

[King Fossil]

i didn't use it before the nerf. Not going to start using it now.

[Antonio Margheriti]

Originally posted by RaNdOmKiLs666:

Should just rename the perk to "Blitz": Increases reload speed by 20%. Also increases your sprint speed by 15% after you've been sprinting for 3 seconds.

This would make it dual purpose, thus making it better overall.

That seems like a pretty neat idea. Makes sense too.

I imagine a good amount of people would consider using atleast a build with that perk.

Tbh they need to buff more mediocre perks like that way, they did a good job just this hotfix.

[koan]

I would still prefer a perk that increases walking speed. Especially after the bugs became slightly faster again.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Bone Zone Jones:

Originally posted by RaNdOmKiLs666:

Should just rename the perk to "Blitz": Increases reload speed by 20%. Also increases your sprint speed by 15% after you've been sprinting for 3 seconds.

This would make it dual purpose, thus making it better overall.

That seems like a pretty neat idea. Makes sense too.

I imagine a good amount of people would consider using atleast a build with that perk.

Tbh they need to buff more mediocre perks like that way, they did a good job just this hotfix.

Increasing the reload speed would probably make it WAY too good.

[Antonio Margheriti]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Bone Zone Jones:

That seems like a pretty neat idea. Makes sense too.

I imagine a good amount of people would consider using atleast a build with that perk.

Tbh they need to buff more mediocre perks like that way, they did a good job just this hotfix.

Increasing the reload speed would probably make it WAY too good.

Probably.

They could slap reload speed unto that one auto-reload perk.
It's a pretty useless perk, I guess if you remember to reload your weapons.

[Deadweight]

Didn't really need nerfed to compensate for the speed buff, so I imagine it'll get that change reversed later on. If it were to get some other buff or another function, walk speed would be fine.

[Lunacy]

Make it last like 2 or 5 extra seconds after you stop sprinting to keep it active by sprinting again, it gets cancelled very easily by a lot of things, especially in glacial.
Though that might end in perpetual infinite sprint boost, so maybe just last 4 seconds after and then have to do the normal reactivation.

[Grisu]

It went from meh.. to meeeeeeeeh. :(

As a gunner the slow mobility is a fun gameplay element I assume.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Grisu:

It went from meh.. to meeeeeeeeh. :(

As a gunner the slow mobility is a fun gameplay element I assume.

Gunner can pick dash for infight mobility. It works pretty good.

SW lost a few ranks in the rating and imo is now on the bottom tier.

[0ptimistPrime (the Gray)]

I was using Second Wind on all classes but Scout prior to the latest hotfix. Since the change, I've removed it from all my dwarves.
It was a minor convenience before, but now the speed boost seems too small to take up a perk slot for me. I mean, the perk's top speed hasn't really changed since they balanced it with the new sprint speed, but if I'm getting a smaller %speed boost from sprinting then I'll just pass on it entirely.

I would -not- want to see the speed boost on Second Wind increase beyond its current scope. I think it already provides dwarves the ability to jump larger gaps than we need to be jumping without the use of traversal equipment.
I wouldn't be opposed to finding a secondary passive effect to stick on it, something that fits the name. Slightly faster Power Attack cooldown? A ridiculously low HP regen (like 6hp/min)? I dunno.
Merging this perk into another one is an option, but I'd personally rather see more perk options than less.

Originally posted by Grisu:

It went from meh.. to meeeeeeeeh. :(

That sums it up pretty well.

Originally posted by Lunacy:

Make it last like 2 or 5 extra seconds after you stop sprinting to keep it active by sprinting again, it gets cancelled very easily by a lot of things, especially in glacial.
Though that might end in perpetual infinite sprint boost, so maybe just last 4 seconds after and then have to do the normal reactivation.

That's a decent idea to help make it a little less meh, I could get behind that

[Vampire Detective]

Originally posted by PsychicSploob:

It's bad. It's on the same level as "It's a Bug Thing" imo. Some people still like it though, so there's no reason to remove it. It adds to the difficulty of decision for some.

It's far better than "It's a bug Thing." It's a bug thing is like a gag gift to players.