Is the matchmaking actually rigged?

[Rabipelado]

The last couple of days and today I have been noticing a pattern with the enemies who play against me. At least in casual matches.

If I play a control deck, then my enemies will only or 90% of the time play ramp or control deck.

For instance, today specifically I tried playing a midrange air deck, but most of my enemies were playing ger/japan or japan/germ super aggro decks. Then I tought: "well, if they play a lot of jaggro today, and I have lost too much, then I will try to play a control deck with a lot of heals". But then, all japanese or german aggressive players disappear, I cant see any more of them, just more control decks, commandos, etc.

I wonder, Is the matchmaking in casual matches rigged? If so, why? Shouldnt it be randomized?

[Void]

It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change

[puschit]

Sigh, why would "the system" decide to randomly screw specific players in casual? Please note that, if it gives you a bad matchup, it also gives the other a good one?

Casual matchups aren't totally random, they still use MMR, the only difference is that there aren't any ranks to consider.

If you really think something nefarious is going on, do this: Write down all matchups you have. The deck you play, the deck the opponent play. Also note down the day and time (there are huge differences depending on your zone!). And do this for a loooong time - because a dozen or 2 games is not a sample size you can work with. Don't even look at the data before the first 100 games. The more different decks you play yourself, the bigger the sample size needs to be.

Another thing to consider: Do you play both casual and ranked? I don't know if the game uses two different MMRs or if the one from ranked carries over to casual, so there might also be differences when you play longer streaks in either mode.

Finally, most players play Standard aka ranked. Only a tiny fraction of games are played in casual and, by nature, these typically are players that don't play regularly. This means two things: 1) Type of decks played can vary tremendously from day to day. 2) With only few players in the queue, the matchmaking system sometimes doesn't have a choice what kind of opponent you'll get (since MMR is attached to players, not decks, this should not matter anyways, but IF they actually would factor in decks, few players in queues would mean not much choice to pick from).

Okay, one more, finally finally: This is a dynamic game and decks are different. In your head you have names for decks you see every day and they might look all the same for you, but there are actually thousands of decks out there. In casual, naturally, the range is even broader. Do you really think they spent precious dev time to write algorithms that somehow analyze and categorize every single deck out there just to screw randomly with individual players for no reason?
EDIT: If you actually do what I suggest and log the games you play you'll run into this problem BTW: You have to categorize decks and in many cases you'll have trouble doing so (or you'll lump many actually different decks together and thus falsify the data)

[uncleed]

When I build a new or meme deck, I always face someone of similar "structure", and by that I mean haphazard and/or bad, certainly outside of meta.
Then I feel like the more the deck wins the fewer seals I see on the ice and meet more bears.

[puschit]

Originally posted by uncleed:

When I build a new or meme deck, I always face someone of similar "structure", and by that I mean haphazard and/or bad, certainly outside of meta.
Then I feel like the more the deck wins the fewer seals I see on the ice and meet more bears.

That's what MMR does. That's it's purpose.

[Lucky_Star_Fan]

Yeah currently it will give me 1-2 normal games then 2-3 self-damage soviet auto-loss games in a row then 1-2 normal games again repeating. Very annoying. Shame no nerfs for soviet in the patch!

[romy]

Unless you are playing training mode, your opponents are actual humans who chose their own decks, just like you. So it is humans who chose their decks (just like you did) not "matchmaking", whatever you mean by that.

[Rabipelado]

Originally posted by puschit:

Sigh, why would "the system" decide to randomly screw specific players in casual? Please note that, if it gives you a bad matchup, it also gives the other a good one?

Casual matchups aren't totally random, they still use MMR, the only difference is that there aren't any ranks to consider.

If you really think something nefarious is going on, do this: Write down all matchups you have. The deck you play, the deck the opponent play. Also note down the day and time (there are huge differences depending on your zone!). And do this for a loooong time - because a dozen or 2 games is not a sample size you can work with. Don't even look at the data before the first 100 games. The more different decks you play yourself, the bigger the sample size needs to be.

Another thing to consider: Do you play both casual and ranked? I don't know if the game uses two different MMRs or if the one from ranked carries over to casual, so there might also be differences when you play longer streaks in either mode.

Finally, most players play Standard aka ranked. Only a tiny fraction of games are played in casual and, by nature, these typically are players that don't play regularly. This means two things: 1) Type of decks played can vary tremendously from day to day. 2) With only few players in the queue, the matchmaking system sometimes doesn't have a choice what kind of opponent you'll get (since MMR is attached to players, not decks, this should not matter anyways, but IF they actually would factor in decks, few players in queues would mean not much choice to pick from).

Okay, one more, finally finally: This is a dynamic game and decks are different. In your head you have names for decks you see every day and they might look all the same for you, but there are actually thousands of decks out there. In casual, naturally, the range is even broader. Do you really think they spent precious dev time to write algorithms that somehow analyze and categorize every single deck out there just to screw randomly with individual players for no reason?
EDIT: If you actually do what I suggest and log the games you play you'll run into this problem BTW: You have to categorize decks and in many cases you'll have trouble doing so (or you'll lump many actually different decks together and thus falsify the data)

Probably it has to do with the mmr as you explained and others pointed out in their comments. So when you start winning you are put against better enemies with better decks and card combinations.

[Rabipelado]

Originally posted by Void:

It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change

this is exactly what I was trying to express with my broken english, so thanks. This is what I meant. The matches seem to change depending on what type of deck you choose to play with.

[Rabipelado]

Originally posted by romy:

Unless you are playing training mode, your opponents are actual humans who chose their own decks, just like you. So it is humans who chose their decks (just like you did) not "matchmaking", whatever you mean by that.

As Void said: "It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change."

I didnt mean the cards of a deck, I was referring to the deck itself a person has to play against. I.e. If person plays BRIT/IT control HQ heal, the odds are that person is not going to be put against a JAGGRO player. Or at least the chances of that happening are reduced.

[romy]

Originally posted by Rabipelado:

Originally posted by romy:

Unless you are playing training mode, your opponents are actual humans who chose their own decks, just like you. So it is humans who chose their decks (just like you did) not "matchmaking", whatever you mean by that.

As Void said: "It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change."

I didnt mean the cards of a deck, I was referring to the deck itself a person has to play against. I.e. If person plays BRIT/IT control HQ heal, the odds are that person is not going to be put against a JAGGRO player. Or at least the chances of that happening are reduced.

maybe read again.

You chose your deck, right ? well your opponent chose a deck too, exactly like you did.

You chose your own deck, not "matchmaking". your opponent chose their own deck, not "matchmaking".
matchmaking is just the process of selecting 2 players who are queuing for a game, it's not some powerful AI analyzing decks of cards to magically determine which one YOU in particular don't want to verse (for some reason known by you only) and put you against it because it decided to specifically make YOU lose and give that other person a free win. How does that make sense ? why would that AI choose you specifically to make you lose ? And why would 1939 go in such lengths (and lots of money to pay for powerful AI developement, training and maintenance) just to piss off customers and drive them out of the game ? that's insane, none of it makes any sense.

[Rabipelado]

Originally posted by romy:

Originally posted by Rabipelado:

As Void said: "It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change."

I didnt mean the cards of a deck, I was referring to the deck itself a person has to play against. I.e. If person plays BRIT/IT control HQ heal, the odds are that person is not going to be put against a JAGGRO player. Or at least the chances of that happening are reduced.

maybe read again.

You chose your deck, right ? well your opponent chose a deck too, exactly like you did.

You chose your own deck, not "matchmaking". your opponent chose their own deck, not "matchmaking".
matchmaking is just the process of selecting 2 players who are queuing for a game, it's not some powerful AI analyzing decks of cards to magically determine which one YOU in particular don't want to verse (for some reason known by you only) and put you against it because it decided to specifically make YOU lose and give that other person a free win. How does that make sense ? why would that AI choose you specifically to make you lose ? And why would 1939 go in such lengths (and lots of money to pay for powerful AI developement, training and maintenance) just to piss off customers and drive them out of the game ? that's insane, none of it makes any sense.

Well, I just say that it it a very plausible possibility from personal experience playing casual games. Maybe it has to do with MMR or something, idk.

For me it doesnt seem as random as you say, but it must take some stuff in consideration for pairing two different players. Not necessarily to make one of them lose, but to make matches more even.

If this is the case, I dont see how or why it would make sense, and that is why I started the discussion, so I could read others point of view.

Also I think it is not too difficult nor expensive to develop or use software to take algorithms into consideration for pairing 2 players with what a game considers to be a fair match. Since most online videogames would do exactly that. Again, I THINK, i dont know for sure how computer software actually works.

Have you tried it yourself? I mean, playing a casual match with a slow deck considering how many times youre put against other slow or fast decks? When I play britan i dont face many japanese players as when i play soviets, usa, or germans.

[romy]

I never said it was random lol, I literally said the opposite. Your opponent CHOSE his deck, the exact same way you did.

Don't let paranoia overtake you, you can be better than that. Nobody is developing secret magical software for the sole purpose of messing with YOU in particular.

[Rabipelado]

Originally posted by romy:

I never said it was random lol, I literally said the opposite. Your opponent CHOSE his deck, the exact same way you did.

Don't let paranoia overtake you, you can be better than that. Nobody is developing secret magical software for the sole purpose of messing with YOU in particular.

Yeah, i admit i also thought it could be confirmation bias or as you say "paranoia" on my part.

I dont really think you got the meaning from the start of what I was trying to say when posting this discussion on this forum (prob because of my poor english). And I incorrectly read your comments about it.

Anyways, from what other people commented, particularly Puschit, it is clear to me now how things work.

Have a good day.

[romy]

your english is fine, no worries. it is just that you seem smarter than some and I didn't want you to get influenced by the tinfoil hatters that populates this forum.
I can tell you I understand the meaning of what you are trying to say, I exagerated it to the extreme to show you the problem of it if you really think about it.

Human mind is really good at seeing patterns, even when there is none... it is perfectly normal and it is why it is crucial to keep a critical judgment about the patterns we feel. If it doesn't make sense under scrutiny then it is probably just an illusion of the mind.

[76561199052420833]

Originally posted by Rabipelado:

Originally posted by Void:

It definitely changes, depending on what type of deck you play, you will face different kinds of enemy decks. I have seen it many times. I guess this is also some sort of "randomness".
Is it rigged ? idk, but it's proven to change

this is exactly what I was trying to express with my broken english, so thanks. This is what I meant. The matches seem to change depending on what type of deck you choose to play with.

What you said I believe is true. I've played this game for 4000+ hours and I can assure you that the casual game is "rigged". Not only matchmaking is rigged in casual games, the mulligan stage I believe is rigged too.

Sometimes you discard a card in the mulligan stage, even if you only have just one copy of that card in your whole deck, you will find that card almost "instantly" back to your hand.