The Real Truth About The Chinese

[Fredisius]

I typically don't wade into topics that generate more heat than light. However even as bitter and jaded as I am the Chinese cheater rhetoric in Kards needs to be put in it's proper perspective.

Several years ago I did a deep dive into this the issue of "Chinese cheaters" as an associate "developer" for a certain game publisher. It was eye opening with an equal measure of disgust and, honestly, awe. China arguably has the largest number of online (and offline) game players in the world. Like any country/society there are always people that don't play by the rules. I found no evidence that the incidence of individual Chinese players cheating was out of line with any other country. Yet the complaints were there, the stories were there, and the reputation was there. So what was going on?

Both the Chinese government and various criminal factions in China, see gaming as a massive business that they want a part of. In 2024 the estimated worldwide online gaming revenue was $455 BILLION dollars - US. The selling of accounts and "items" for various games is extremely lucrative. So much so that abandoned factories have repurposed into "grind" centers. "Players" work 10 to 12 hour shifts levelling accounts and obtaining valuable items. This predominately takes place in the rural countryside where employment is often scarce and wages are very low. These places are huge, two and three story buildings, open 24/7 with as many as 1200 to 1500 "gamers" slaving away to level accounts and earn rare items. As gruelling as it is they can still make more doing this than they can from more traditional work in the rural provinces.

China isn't the only one that does this. North Korea is a big player as well but the dynamic is the same. They aren't gaming for fun. They are gaming to make a living and it is serious business. I have spoken with a couple of Chinese ex-pats that were part of this system and the stories were astounding. The West has a hard time wrapping their minds around it because we simply don't see gaming that way. As the object is money and profit there is zero regard for rules and fair play. Cheating is a tool, not a moral failing in these environments.

Most of the customers that create the demand for these commodities, are in western countries with the US leading the pack - surprise surprise. They willing to pay and pay big - thousands of dollars for an item or a highly levelled account. Rarely does this make the news but occasionally it does. Several years ago there was a story from Japan that got picked by the major news media. A single piece of "virtual" real estate was sold to an anonymous buyer for one million dollars US. I won't mention the name of the game here. It's mind boggling. Kards is not immune and that's all I'll say.
So are there Chinese cheaters? Yes there are. Are they gamers like most of us? No they are not. The issue is one of scale and, given China's huge population, they will have an outsized presence. There are a lot of Chinese gamers just like us and they suffer the cheaters too. Their sword is doubled edged as they are tarnished by the reputation that their countrymen have cheated their way to.

This explanation won't stop or slow it down, not as long as the West is willing to pay top dollar for ill gotten gains. At the very least I hope you save your ire, not for the Chinese gamer, but the government sanctioned practices and cartels that run these "cheating" factories.

[sushi_komplett]

Now, even if I regularly speak out against labelling chinese players "cheaters" per default, I do very much believe what you are describing. What I am wondering with regard to Kards is this: What would a cheater gain from cheating in the game? And is there any reason at all why Kards would be a target of organized mass cheating?

The answer to the first question, it seems to me, is actually the easier one: A single cheater may have the wish to improve their collection in order to... well, what? They might make personal progress, but to which end? To participate in tournaments and make money? Because that seems to be the only financial gain of having a large collection in Kards. There is no online selling of cards or decor items or anything else. And the tournaments are few in numbers. Kards is, in my eyes, hardly a worthy target for cheating, apart from the casual person looking for some success in the actual game. Am I missing something?

[Aracun]

Even if you take account the fact there's often times betting involved in systematic cheating - once a year KARDS world championships hardly is best venue for that. - not so long ago there was cheating scandal in snooker - everyone can check nationalities themselves -- personally there were many favorite players for me but that doesn't change the facts what happened.

...should always avoid generalizations - but in this day and age wouldn't it be very naive to one deny cheating if you haven't faced it yourself...or believe it cannot exist ... there were many online poker cheating scandals also we know - and it was said "cannot happen" and so on.

I'm NO expert in this subject - but I believe KARDS - on gameplay/interference level at this moment is very clean. - for many this might be "trigger"sensitive matter - I know.

[Aracun]

I quote Fredisius

"As the object is money and profit there is zero regard for rules and fair play. Cheating is a tool, not a moral failing in these environments."

long ago i heard via early internet sources this "Myth" story - and everyone can take it just "as story" -- about Chinese syndicate - -- There was BIG nationwide lottery - i dont remember exact amounts anymore but lets say it was 100 000 000 some currency - and this syndicate paid common people to fill old pen and paper style ALL possible outcomes to guarantee jackpot-- there were several month to do this - I think it was about 40 % return of investment ratio.

Naturally only problem/ danger was if anybody else hits also jackpot :)

[Void]

This aligns well with what I have experienced in my time living in Asia.
Cheating is not something that is looked down upon there, it's rather just another way of winning.

[uncleed]

"If you are not cheating you are not trying hard enough."

[Sebrais]

I think you're being extremely kind to the Chinese in your assessment. Cheating is not simply a means to earn a living, but an established culture and part of the value system. And it's not the West that is keeping this epidemic alive. I play another game which is absolutely infested with Chinese cheaters and there is little to no Western demand for accounts or items. The market for these items is almost entirely Asian.

The issue is more complicated than you have portrayed. Part of the problem is that China is an ultranationalist ethnocentric country and Chinese are taught that it is fine to be ruthlessly unscrupulous in their dealings with non-Chinese people, and especially Westerners. It is inevitable if you foster this kind of unethical mindset that cheating will become rife in your society, as has been seen by the rampant cheating in Chinese colleges.

As the history of gaming has shown, the Chinese bring a cheating infestation to every game they play and it is difficult to believe that Kards is untainted in this regard.

[puschit]

Your story is about china farmers grinding legally in MMOs. What has that to do with actual cheating in a CCG? Nothing. And if you'd want to sell Kards accounts with all cards unlocked you'll just run a bot 24/7, you don't need actual players doing anything.

What's relevent here was this:

Originally posted by Fredisius:

China arguably has the largest number of online (and offline) game players in the world. Like any country/society there are always people that don't play by the rules. I found no evidence that the incidence of individual Chinese players cheating was out of line with any other country.

Important here is not just the conclusion that they cheat as less/much as everybody else. It's also important that they have the largest numbers of players online (which isn't surprising because there is over a billion of them). So, if they have the same percentage of cheaters, this might still seem to you as if they cheat more simply because you encounter them more frequently.

And, again, regardless of your willing you are to cheat - that's worth nothing of the game in question doesn't give them opportunities to do so. Criminal intent alone doesn't make you a criminal and they can't magically cheat on will - there needs to be a glitch to exploit or a server invulnerability to break in in the first place.

[Void]

Originally posted by puschit:

Your story is about china farmers grinding legally in MMOs. What has that to do with actual cheating in a CCG? Nothing. And if you'd want to sell Kards accounts with all cards unlocked you'll just run a bot 24/7, you don't need actual players doing anything.

What's relevent here was this:

Originally posted by Fredisius:

China arguably has the largest number of online (and offline) game players in the world. Like any country/society there are always people that don't play by the rules. I found no evidence that the incidence of individual Chinese players cheating was out of line with any other country.

Important here is not just the conclusion that they cheat as less/much as everybody else. It's also important that they have the largest numbers of players online (which isn't surprising because there is over a billion of them). So, if they have the same percentage of cheaters, this might still seem to you as if they cheat more simply because you encounter them more frequently.

And, again, regardless of your willing you are to cheat - that's worth nothing of the game in question doesn't give them opportunities to do so. Criminal intent alone doesn't make you a criminal and they can't magically cheat on will - there needs to be a glitch to exploit or a server invulnerability to break in in the first place.

Remind me to hire you for my company or become citizen of my country if there will ever be one I govern. You are the perfectly naive, never-questioning anything human every ruling class wants.

[Fredisius]

Sushi,

"There is no online selling of cards or decor items or anything else."

Your statement is not true . As I said Kards is not immune. That's where it has to be left.

[76561198157377508]

farming this gaem for money? bud , have you seen cs market

[LepiSale]

Just got thrown out , possibly by a cheater. I can't get back. Says "Authentication failure". EDIT: Nope. Seems there is a problem with the server.

[Navin]

Who is out there buying Kards accounts? it's not like this game makes it hard to get the cards you want.

[puschit]

Originally posted by Navin:

Who is out there buying Kards accounts? it's not like this game makes it hard to get the cards you want.

Probably nobody, but that's what the OP was implying with his analogy. How that extrapolates into actual cheating remains another mystery.

[terrynationgl]

Originally posted by 4Horsemen:

in case anyone IS buying Kards accounts, i may know some one selling theirs for around 50K cold hard cash ( price is firm and of good value even though none of the decks are complete yet ).

Please reply to this reply if you have a reply that may interest a reply from the replier that will reply to my question in reply. Thank you.

50k Iranian Rial? Sounds like a steal at $1.19