How to solve the Surrender issue

[BladeofSharpness]

75% of the players I fight surrender before dealing the final blow. I got even one some minutes ago that surrendered at ... 16 HP!

This is abusive. Here is a suggestion: surrendering forfeit all progress in achievements, dailys, etc. A white/blank match providing nothing to the surrendering player.

If you find that too harsh, then apply part of the suggestion, but apply something in any case. There must be a penalty to surrendering. It will promote fair play

[deiboier]

Huh? What's the issue exactly?
There's no point to keep playing once I'm confident I can't win the game anymore. I forfeit in real life MTG when a match is over and not once did somebody complain about that - so why would it be an issue in a digital game?

[Jaes]

Wut, how is winning a game an issue?

Sometimes people go in with a test-bed deck configuration to see how it works in live matches because the AI is brain dead and realize they've made mistakes with their deck then proceed to surrender honorably to go correct it.

[Peace]

HP should not be used as an argument yes you can continue playing but if the person feels like they have no chance of winning they are going to surrender forcing someone to just sit there and play a match they are having no fun with is bound to lead to more issues than the ones you claim this would also hurt new players as well since if they don't feel like they are having fun with a match and cant surrender then move on to a new match they would be more likely to just uninstall

[Roland the Thompson Gunner]

What is the point of fighting if you are absolutely sure you can't win? Surrendering saves your time and winning player's time. If there is a penalty for surrender, there will be players who will abuse this by postponing their turn end as long as possible just to irritate other player.

Also, those guys surrendering at high HP might be doing so because they have to take a call or because their kid is crying or something like that. They are actually doing YOU a favor surrendering and not AFKing (and not wasting YOUR time).

P.S. Also, consider being in this situation yourself. You are losing decisively, but you can't surrender because you will be penalized, so you are forced to sit through the game you don't enjoy even a little. You are punished twice — once for losing the game and second time for surrendering (by forfeiting your progress) or not surrendering (by wasting your time). Will you like it?

[BladeofSharpness]

I can understand there are many legitimate reasons to surrender. The ones you cited. But I see people surrendering as soon as their initial hand is not good enough or the first three turns are not turning the way they want. And why they would not do that, as there is ZERO penalty in surrendering, even that early.

So I'll rephrase. Surrendering before say the fifth turn or before you are down to 10 HP is not fair play. Things might still be in balance. That's just too easy to surrender as soon as your initial cards are not as you want.

[deiboier]

I still don't understand your problem - they surrender, you get your win.
Just start your next match?

[DjohDjeen]

Carrots, not sticks.

Staying till the end already gives you progress towards achievements.

This said, I think making more achievements that are oriented towards staying in the match would be a good thing.

Especially if the deck you are facing is way more powerful than the one you have.

[Goliathus]

Originally posted by BladeofSharpness:

I can understand there are many legitimate reasons to surrender. The ones you cited. But I see people surrendering as soon as their initial hand is not good enough or the first three turns are not turning the way they want. And why they would not do that, as there is ZERO penalty in surrendering, even that early.

So I'll rephrase. Surrendering before say the fifth turn or before you are down to 10 HP is not fair play. Things might still be in balance. That's just too easy to surrender as soon as your initial cards are not as you want.

That kind of limitation achieves nothing. (Assuming I am the people you said,) If I intend to surrender on turn 1, I will just straight pass till turn 5 without playing anything. If you attack me down to 10 HP before then, great, I surrender earlier, yeah. If not, I will straight pass to turn 5 or burn myself down to 10 and surrender. It's the same thing in the end, albeit more work. If you get satisfaction from someone straight passing to turn 5 than a turn 1 surrender, I guess that's worthwhile from your perspective. But on the large scale, it's the same feeling for most people.

[Boneripper]

If they surrender early and you have time you can get another match in. It's a win win in my eye's.

[BladeofSharpness]

Ok, so you won't mind if I play against you and as soon as my initial cards are not optimal I move on and abandon. Fine.

[BladeofSharpness]

Also to be noted that many game puts either a penalty on surrender or at least tag players with their 'keep rate' so you know against who you are. But if everything is fine and rosy, then that"s good.

[deiboier]

Originally posted by BladeofSharpness:

Ok, so you won't mind if I play against you and as soon as my initial cards are not optimal I move on and abandon. Fine.

Nope I won't - it's a free win after all, how would I care? There's always another match to be played.

[Goliathus]

Originally posted by BladeofSharpness:

Ok, so you won't mind if I play against you and as soon as my initial cards are not optimal I move on and abandon. Fine.

Free rank gain and money? I'd take that all day long. It's not like 9 out of 10 matches would be like this(if it's that rampant, then yes do something), a free win once in a while is absolutely fine by me.

Originally posted by BladeofSharpness:

Also to be noted that many game puts either a penalty on surrender or at least tag players with their 'keep rate' so you know against who you are. But if everything is fine and rosy, then that"s good.

Give some examples. All the digital card games I played(and yes, I played like almost all of them, the only one that is popular and I have not played is Gwent) have absolutely zero penalty regarding surrender. You can say "then f*** digital card games", but surrender is never penalized in this genre. Other genres, maybe. I can see it is needed in LoL to not have surrender until the match is 15 mins in but a 1v1 card game, it's whatever.

[BladeofSharpness]

I also play various strategy games in MP and yes for long games people get penalized to drop. Perhaps not in digital card games, I don't know honestly. If you all think that's fine, then that's fine. But it came as a bad surprise. Iit feels like you can never finish a game, because of quitters.

And obviously we are not of the same world or era (I'm old). I dislike in a competitive environment these 'free gifts' you have no problems accepting. Lets take a parallel, half valid perhaps. It is like you are in a sport competition and get access to the podium because the other team has abandoned because of being sick, had a car breakdown and such.

if you find that AS satisfying as winning in the normal fashion, then fine. I don't. I'm still frustrated. When things are still in balance and the other guy just quit because not all stars are aligned for him? Sure, I win and I can move on, but that's frustrating, for me.

People just don't stick anymore anyway (old timer mode ON :-) Some, as soon they have a trouble, fold.

As a courtesy to my opponent (that I salute when I start a game), if I see he don't linger purposely, I wait until he gives the killing blow.
Another time, another approach.

[Goliathus]

You have to understand that in some e-sports, conceding and never finishing a game is the norm. In RTS(Starcraft, Warcraft, what have you), games are 99.99% conceded with a GG after the other player is certain he has lost. Same deal for card games too.

While I understand your point, I think you give too much value to a ladder game. Ladder game is throwaway garbage when it comes to competitiveness and competitive integrity, so you really shouldn't try to expect too much of it. They are like pick-up basketball games in the park and not like a NBA game. In a true competitive environment(say one day KARDS has tournaments and such), people aren't going to concede as early as they would on ladder. That should be the place to embrace your competitiveness.

I think you are trying too hard or seen ladder too seriously, most people simply don't. Some people are just there to farm wins or finish daily quests. When they see they can't win, they obviously bail. It's a common thing in the various card games out there. I guess I am just too used to that nowadays to give a crap about ladder. I always search for tournaments if I want to embrace the competitive side and the lack of competitive scenes have been a reason why I sort of abandoned many card games.