Any tips for a newbie?

[Firestorm🗿]

Currently making my way through the tutorials. I have had my eye on this game for a few years, Thanks to Mighty Jingles and Jive Turkey and having noticed it come up at such a discount this Crimbo sale I had to buy it!

Suffice to say, I have some idea of what I am doing and thus I am asking more for tips on achieving success on the high seas, rather than "This button does this" and "Don't fire a torpedo while travelling above this speed" Thanks!

[justanoob]

Vanilla CW 1984/ Y2K player here.

General tips:
1. Always go to ultra quiet and check ambient noise levels at the start, in that order.

2. Know how many wires your boat can support at once, and the range and speed of your torpedoes. (1968 scenarios have MUCH slower torps)

3. Attempt to fully and correctly identify any contacts, if at all possible. This includes detection by passive, visual, or ESM.

4. Watch the numbers on the lower part on the “Signatures” tab once you have identified your targets. This represents the ability of enemy ships to detect you by active sonar, passive sonar, and towed array. Take care that the numbers do not exceed 10, especially on passive and towed array, otherwise they would have a fix on your position.

5. If you want to sneak closer to your opposition, keep your nose pointed towards them and remain in ultra quiet. This should delay detection by active sonar by quite a bit. (Especially so in 1968 where enemy sonars are basically trash across the board)

6. Never, ever fire a sub-launched missile without some sort of exit plan. Especially in a slow sub like the Sturgeons or the Narwhal with enemy ASW planes and helos present.

7. Be aggressive, but not reckless. Too aggressive and you get sunk, but too careful and the enemy will drop a torp on your head before you can execute your attack plan and turn you defensive at the start.

8. If you enter an engagement with an ASW plane present in the strategic map, the enemy will have a rough idea on where you are and ASW plane support. If a satellite is present, because they have very wide detection range the enemy will have a good idea on where you are, expect either a helo or a missile-launched torp on top of you very soon after you enter engagement.

9. Know your cavitation depth so you can quickly judge what speed you can travel the fastest if you need to be somewhere in a hurry yet still remaining fairly quiet.

10. Know the noise level of your own sub. On the ship recognition chart, the right-most sub icon on the lower left will display info on your own sub, including noise level. This combined with info on local ambient noise level should help you determine how close you can get without attracting much attention
(e.g, a Los Angeles sub will put out roughly 120db, with a 75db ambient noise this means you can get close up to 10-15k yd on a surface target with relatively good passive sonar like the Kara, Kresta II, Kirov, Kiev, etc without being detected. Any closer and you run the risk of either summoning an ASW helo or missile-launched torps on top of you)

11. Dog-leg your torps whenever possible to hide your datum. Keep to medium range (15k-20k yd is best), launch your torp directly at the target (so in the event the wire breaks they’re not completely wasted shots) and angle your torp after launch so they come from a different bearing and hopefully the enemy fires their torps that way instead of directly at you.

12. 15k yds is the limit where the game will say “No vessels/ weapons/ aircraft nearby”. Slip outside this range for any contacts you do not want to engage.

13. Use the layer to your advantage.

14. If ambient noise level is high (>90 db), don’t be afraid to go active for a few pings at a time. Wait until the enemy pings back in return and shoot back at their bearing. Don’t forget to clear your datum as well!

15. Sometimes unorthodox tactics works (including running backwards at 5 kts to maintain distance from a closing contact while setting up fire solutions or slipping away undetected, etc)

Evasion:
1. When evading a torp, make full use of your depth trim as well. Rudders and planes may not be enough.

2. If possible, keep a MOSS loaded in one of your tubes. May just buy you enough time to execute evasive maneuvers if the enemy drop a torp on you while you’re still slow.

3. Keep the enemy torps behind you so you can continuously feed them knuckles. This will help cutting down on noisemaker expenditure and wasting their fuel from having to go around the knuckle every time.

4. Watch carefully when you drop a noisemaker or make a knuckle on an chasing enemy torpedo. If it’s going around, then you can settle back into the heading you want to go to prepare another knuckle. If it’s running straight through, move away from your original bearing and either go deep or go shallow. Evade then settle back into the original heading.

5. Keep away from any area where the enemy got a fix on you after evasion. Keep away at least 8k yards from any sonobuoys dropped, and if you’re within that distance, attempt to sneak away by traveling deep (ASW MAD have a limit of 500ft on vanilla, but obviously not applicable in shallow waters), below 15 kts, and perhaps by firing a MOSS at the sonobuoys and running in the opposite direction. Also take care to NEVER point your screws directly towards the sonobuoys, keep them at a slight angle and change directions every so often to reduce the possibility of the ASW getting another fix on you and dropping another one on top of your head.


Special:
1. SEAL insertion mission needs to be run properly, but most importantly, QUIETLY. Else you risk the SEAL teams failing their mission and/ or losing your sub as well.

2. TLAM strikes have been simplified since the days of Jingles. No longer do you have the blue circle where you have to shoot your TLAMs into, instead the strike needs only to be targeted some distance away from the actual target, but the launch also has to be within 100 miles/ 75k yds to be counted. Bring extras TLAMs just in case.

(Archangelsk is a ♥♥♥♥♥ of a port to do TLAM strikes/ SEAL insertion at. Ask me how I know)

3. Y2K mission may also have a SEAL insertion mission on an oil rig patrolled usually by 2 surface vessel and potentially a sub as well. You need to identify the surface vessel patrol routes EXACTLY to avoid being overrun by one vessel when heading into the insertion point, which is the oil rig itself.

4. It may be preferable to occasionally fail a mission outside of the final boomer-hunting mission if you think you don’t have the number of weapons required to finish it.
(e.g, being sent on a mission to kill a resupply ship being escorted by a Luda DDG and Jiangwei FF in shallow waters with only ONE Mk.48, 2 MOSS, and ONE TASM remaining. That was fun :v )

5. Avoid taking damage in Pumps, Reactor, and Propulsion if at all possible. Damage to Pumps mean you cannot clear flooding fast enough until fixed, Reactor will render you dead in the water until repaired, whereas Propulsion will limit your speed to 10 kts and requires RTB to fully fix, making you a sitting duck for torps and everyone else still alive.

[justanoob]

As for your sub and single mission practice selection, my recommendation would be as follows:

1984: For newbs, stick to Los Angeles-class. Once you can clear Beating The Odds single mission regularly then you can consider adding the Sturgeon/ Narwhal to the repertoire, trading speed for stealth and deeper test depth. Permit-class isn’t too bad either, if you can tolerate the 4 kt slower speed and slightly noisier noise output. Skipjack class is to be avoided unless you know what you’re doing because of its shallowest test dive depth, noisiest noise output, and only keeps 1 wire at a time.

For Missions, focus on Beating The Odds, Bastion Gambit, Steel Coffins, The Hunt for Red Bear.

Y2K: While the Seawolf-class is the quietest, has the most torpedo tubes with as many wires, and the most hardy against air-launched torpedoes (no joke, it may take anywhere between 3-6 air/ missile-launched torps to kill a Seawolf), I’m now preferring either the Flight II or Flight III Los Angeles-class. In one word, it’s VLS capability.

Because you need to stock extra TLAMs as insurance, and the Seawolf-class lacks VLS, you have to launch them through the tubes. This will count towards your final weapon count, and you will only be recalled back to Holy Loch/ Guam when there’s less weapons than tubes, greatly increasing the likelihood of having to do a mission underarmed.

VLS weapons DO NOT count towards your final stock and can be fired instantly, at the cost of more limited launch parameters (less than 80ft depth, no more than 5 kts). Thus you can be recalled back to base with a full load of VLS tubes. The VLS also doesn’t get cleared out when having to stow SEALs onboard.
I myself like to load 10 TLAMs and 2 TASMs, with 4 MOSS, 6 Harpoons, and 4 TASM backing up the 2 in VLS, and the rest being Mk.48 ADCAPs. This gives me a lot more flexibility than the Seawolf class while being just as fast and stealthy, I would argue.

Missions: The above mentioned 1984 missions plus Junks on Parade and High Noon. Junks on Parade is substantially more difficult due to the shallow waters and constant ASW air support for the enemy, but can be satisfying if you can pull it off.

[OldRecluse]

This is an excellent guide.

[The Inept European]

Yes very good newbie tips, nothing to add.

[kschang77]

Feel free to watch some of the videos from those of us who had been playing a while. :D We've played through the campaigns so you may learn a thing or three, or at least, what mistakes not to make like us. :D

[kschang77]

A couple more thoughts:

My method of playing Seawolf is not for everybody,

I don't use anti-ship missiles EXCEPT as "Hail Mary" type of attack when I'm stuck in a place and enemy convoy ships are escaping and I am held down by escorts so I can't catch them (a bit like how Russian modern subs use the 65-76 torpedoes). Which calls for TASMs (bigger warhead) and I carry only like 2 of them, as I don't intend to be hit at all.

I prefer torpedo attack with the Seawolf. With some maneuvering, you can execute torpedo attacks 30km away at Realistic difficulty. I launch them two at a time, with about 30 second interval between salvos, all of them "doglegged" so I don't have to execute evasive maneuvers after an attack. The 30 second interval is to give myself enough time to guide each fish manually into a target, bypassing the decoys and noisemakers.

Manually steer your fish to bypass the noisemakers. You can cheat a little and use the 3D view, but you don't have to. Just get it to the right depth using the conditions panel, then use the big map and zoom in and guide the fish in manually with your numpad.

Learn how the sonar really works: only the BEARING can be trusted 100%, and MAYBE the depth too. The range is HIGHLY flexible depending on the solution's confidence level.

Always load a decoy in tube 1 for emergencies. And keep an eye on your surroundings. You don't want an enemy helo to dip near you, or a sonobuoy dopped near you while you're busy guiding the torpedo on terminal run on that Akula you've been stalking.

[Jeff]

When you enter a mission, the mission always tells you the heading of the last known contact. Fire a torp immediately in that direction and let it seek. You will get one nearly every time.

When you fire torps, there is a strong chance the enemy will hear it and they will blind fire back.

If you can maneuver a torpedo to approach from a different angle than where you are, it is ideal. The moment it activates, they will blind fire in that direction and if you aren't there, you can just watch an episode of Oprah while the torps look for you.

When enemy is active pinging (searching for you), there will be yellow lines. If you are having trouble detecting them, fire a torpedo down those lines and activate them. You might get lucky.

Your passive array (your ability to detect other ships) is greatly reduced if you are near the sea floor. You need to be a minimum of 150 ft above the sea floor to see other ships properly. If you are struggling to find anything and are near the floor, rise up.

Radar is a safe tool to use near the surface and will find surface ships extremely effectively. ESM will almost always reveal where you are but it is the most accurate. Periscope is fun, but very limited. Be careful, though, if htey see you, they will fire shells and if you are near the surface, you are an easy target.

on the main map, if you are moving at full speed, you will spawn into a mission at full speed and as deep as possible. If you are not moving at all, you will spawn near the surface. You can use this to your advantage.

Harpoon missiles can be shot down by destroyers, but if you shoot two, one will always hit.

The Tomahawk missiles rarely get shot down and nearly always hit.

Firing any missile reveals where you are. After you fire, you need to dive and go full speed and turn all at once. You need time to reload anyways and you can't guide the missiles so it works perfectly.

When doing missions against invasions, you may be up against 12 ships at once. Take down the destroyers first, the transports will start running and they can and likely will get beyond range of your torps. This is where missiles are perfect. They can't defend themselves. Fish in a barrel.

Zig zagging silently and deep is the only real way to shake off aircraft. They are annoying. There is not much more you can do. They can be real good at finding you. If you are deep, you can move faster, and it may be necessary if they found you.

The baltic sea scenarios, the Russians will always move along the coast of Norway. You can use this to your advantage to intercept.

China scenarios. You have to go back to Guam to restock. This takes a very long time. You will likely fail a few missions because of this.

If you need to take down a wolfpack or most other quests, all you need to do is sink 1 of 3 and they give you credit for a successful mission. Downing all 3 is better, but if you are low on torps or evading torps, etc. You can still get a win.

[Jimbob]

Gonna ask my newb question here instead of creating a new thread: I've done two campaign missions successfully, but in the second one, tangled with a helicopter and taken 75% hull damage. Immediately after closing the mission, I get a new one: Kill an invasion fleet. "You're the only submarine in the area."

Can I just chin off a direct order and head back to base for repairs and re-supply? Can I dive as normal with hull damage (a brief internet search suggests not)? What consequences are there for me deciding not to bother with the mission if I leg it? What are my chances of nailing the transports when I've got about eight torps left, no missiles and only one moss?

[kschang77]

Yes, you can ignore the mission and run home for repairs. You run the risk of failing the mission, but it's better than losing the sub. If you are doing decently in the campaign, you can lose a couple missions and you'll be fine.

Assuming SCS2K campaign, an "invasion fleet" is generally a couple landing ships (3-4) maybe with a freighter or two, plus 3-4 escorts (and a couple subs). If you get a good solution you can probably dogleg 3-4 torpedoes into the middle of their convoy and take out the landing ships. You only need to kill HALF to win the mission.

See my "8 things they don't tell you about Cold Waters w/ DotMod" guide for that tip and other things you need to know. Keep in mind I only play with DotMod, so my hints MAY not apply to vanilla CW, but most should.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2921455446

[kschang77]

You are welcome to check my playthrough of CW w/ Dotmod. I play RSR (1984) and SCS (2000) mostly. My videos are on my YT channel, which is linked via my profile here.

[JESSIKA 07]

I play the vanilla version only. So if you play something else, my advice may not be as effective...

One thing a lot of newbie seems to 'forget', is that if you use ANY active sonar or worst, RADAR, to detect enemies...you are a dead duck. Active Radar WILL REVEAL your position immediately to anyone around. So if you use it to quickly see where everyone is, make sure you have at least 2 decoy MOSS loaded and ready to shoot. ONE will generally won't be enough...as you will see torpedoes falling off the sky on your position as if the entire Russian fleet was present...

Another very useful thing; Although they say that the torp will follow the closest target in its detection cone, i found that (at least in the vanilla version) torpedoes will generally follow the NOISIEST target, not the closest one.

That means that if you are close to your own MOSS, most torpedoes will go for the MOSS, AS FAR AS YOU DON'T MAKE MORE NOISE than your MOSS. Typically it means running at 20knots or less. if you can, try to go under your MOSS for more safety. it is nerve breaking...but it works. I can hide under my MOSS and close the gap with the enemy fleet at 20 knots and in some mission, like the bastion gambit, it can make all the difference.

Don't use the MOSS only when evading. Use it to your advantage. Sending a MOSS is like sending another SUB for them to shoot at.

That means that i will use a MOSS to ACTIVELY LURE the enemy escort AWAY from its current protective position, chasing ghost, while i approach silently for the kill...

My last advice; BE AGRESSIVE. When you have reach 85% solution and want to shoot, SHOOT AS MUCH AS YOU HAVE. Spread your torpedoes in a fan arc and don't trust the distance to the target. DISTANCE IS ALWAYS WRONG; SUBMARINE are silent and they always appear way farther THAN THEY REALLY ARE... SURFACE VESSELS are loud and appear much closer THAN THEY REALLY ARE. At least until you have 85% solution on them... IF YOU SHOOT TOO FAR BEFORE ACTIVATING POINT, THEY WILL RUSH YOUR TORPEDOES and pass over them making them useless. if you are not sure of the distance of an escorter, sometimes, it is better to set your torpedoes as circling pattern instead of snake.

[Eldrarak1982]

Here's my number 1 tip that has saved me the most times from near-certain death.

Step 1. When an enemy torpedo locks onto you, try to get either as shallow or as deep as you possibly can before the torpedo is less than 45 seconds out.

Step 2. Get your speed to zero as quickly as possible. Use "Back Emergency" power if necessary, but once you are stopped, set engines to all stop.

Step 3. If you are shallow, immediately set ballast to -30. If you are deep, set ballast to +30.

Step 4. Wait until the torpedo passes right above you (if you are descending) or right under you (if you are climbing).

Step 5. Check which direction the torpedo turns.

Step 6. Immediately apply either Forward 5 or Back Emergency power so that your sub will move into the circle drawn by the torpedo's turn radius, and use rudder to steer into the center. Your goal is to place yourself into the dead center of the torpedo's circle.

Step 7. Once you are IN the dead-center of the torpedo's radii, bring your ship to a COMPLETE stop. The torpedo will be unable to detect you or steer into you. It will continue making circles forever until its time runs out and it self-destructs.

If you do this properly, the torpedo will never be able to hit you. If there are multiple torpedoes, get into the center of at least 1 of their circles, but continue to climb or descend as you had been. After a couple hundred feet, you'll be able to repeat the process with the second torpedo, such that the second torpedo can't turn into you (because you are in the center of it's radii), and the first can't see you (because you are either above or below its detection path).

Do NOT use noisemakers unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Usually, it's not.

[justanoob]

Originally posted by Eldrarak1982:

Here's my number 1 tip that has saved me the most times from near-certain death.

Step 1. When an enemy torpedo locks onto you, try to get either as shallow or as deep as you possibly can before the torpedo is less than 45 seconds out.

Step 2. Get your speed to zero as quickly as possible. Use "Back Emergency" power if necessary, but once you are stopped, set engines to all stop.

Step 3. If you are shallow, immediately set ballast to -30. If you are deep, set ballast to +30.

Step 4. Wait until the torpedo passes right above you (if you are descending) or right under you (if you are climbing).

Step 5. Check which direction the torpedo turns.

Step 6. Immediately apply either Forward 5 or Back Emergency power so that your sub will move into the circle drawn by the torpedo's turn radius, and use rudder to steer into the center. Your goal is to place yourself into the dead center of the torpedo's circle.

Step 7. Once you are IN the dead-center of the torpedo's radii, bring your ship to a COMPLETE stop. The torpedo will be unable to detect you or steer into you. It will continue making circles forever until its time runs out and it self-destructs.

If you do this properly, the torpedo will never be able to hit you. If there are multiple torpedoes, get into the center of at least 1 of their circles, but continue to climb or descend as you had been. After a couple hundred feet, you'll be able to repeat the process with the second torpedo, such that the second torpedo can't turn into you (because you are in the center of it's radii), and the first can't see you (because you are either above or below its detection path).

Do NOT use noisemakers unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Usually, it's not.

My problem is that be it stopping from reverse or forward speeds, there will still be some momentum in your sub’s movement, causing it to inch forward or backwards ever so slowly even when your speed says 0 kts, hence for me, I prefer dropping a noisemaker on torpedo contact, then reversing the sub until the noisemaker is in the center of the sub’s length and going full negative ballast. The idea is to just ride together with the noisemaker all the way down, using the noisemaker as additional insurance and banking on the first couple of air-dropped torps being set to circle around knuckles and noisemakers. I don’t concern myself in getting to the center of its turning radii because in most cases I ran into, if the Reds bothered to drop a torp on top of your head they have a fairly good idea of where you are anyway, and thus it wouldn’t be just one, but possibly 2 to 4 air/ missile-dropped torpedoes coming from different angles.

The drawback of this technique is of course, you need plenty of depth under your keel and a sub that can comfortably go below 1000 ft if needs be, and if the Red torps ended up being a straight-runner you could run the risk of it impacting your broadside anyway, noisemaker or not. I only use this when I’m being engaged while still guiding my torps to target and I can’t afford to break wire and go full evasion.

[justanoob]

Originally posted by JESSIKA 07:

I play the vanilla version only. So if you play something else, my advice may not be as effective...

One thing a lot of newbie seems to 'forget', is that if you use ANY active sonar or worst, RADAR, to detect enemies...you are a dead duck. Active Radar WILL REVEAL your position immediately to anyone around. So if you use it to quickly see where everyone is, make sure you have at least 2 decoy MOSS loaded and ready to shoot. ONE will generally won't be enough...as you will see torpedoes falling off the sky on your position as if the entire Russian fleet was present...

With radar, I like using one radar ping only, but usually only after I finish classify the targets by passive or periscope and I start from 25k yds. Raise the radar, and as soon as the solution hits 95% (usually the instant the radar mast is fully extended) bring it back down again. That said, I am confident in my evasion ability so YMMV.

As for active sonar, there are certain instances where you have no choice but to start pinging (i.e; very high ambient noise in excess of 95db). I myself does like to ping a few times, see if the Reds ping back in return, then snap a shot down their sonar pulse or launch transient bearing. Again, I’m confident in my evasion ability, so I do like taking such risks from time to time.

[evolgenius]

Check this out. :) While it is for the 1980's spiritual father of the game, it is still CHOCK FULL of relevant and applicable information for this game that neither the game or manual explain. It's practically a strategy guide.

https://www.digitpress.com/library/manuals/c64/red_storm_rising.pdf