More Thoughts on Soviet Tactics in 1984

[kschang77]

Finished a 1984 PACT Campaign on EASY, as I find Realistic way too brutal for me. (NOTE: I have zero problem playing NATO side on Realistic)

1) Forget ALL of your NATO tactics

You can't out-quiet the NATO guys, so don't even try. They can detect you much further than you can detect them, unless you're sitting still (and they're not paying attention)

Instead, adopt tactics that optimizes the success of your weapons.

2) Wakehomers are your best assets, use them

53-65's, and later, 65-73s, and USET-80s are your best anti-ship weapons, despite their relatively short range (except 65-73), in that they are basically fire and forget. However, they do require the torpedo to intercept a recognizable wake. The important word here: 'recognizable'. If you intercept it too far back from the ship it's not recognizable, as the wave had dissipated. But too far forward, and you may not intercept the wake at all, as the ship turned into the torpedo. The catch of course... The wakehomer only works for surface targets (except USER-80, which *can * be used against subsurface targets)

Thus, to intercept the maximum wake, you have to aim just behind the ship, while the ship was "crossing your T"), and you can aim where you want with a 95% solution.

The 53-65s are a PITA to use due to short range so you have to make slashing attacks. Charge in on one side of the convoy, launch, and run. Against charging escorts you may have to launch TWO, one to provoke him into turning, and the other "leading" him so it intercepts his wake.

USET-80s are excellent anti-escort torpedoes, when you are fast and deep. Set the torp to snake and surface mode, slow to 20, and when you did, send one off to an escort coming after you within 10 km (preferably within 7km) and get back to flank and dodging. They can be launched from any depth, so you can pop one off at 600m if you like. Even if the torpedo misses, it'll likely kill the escort anyway because it will switch to wakehoming mode.

The 65-73s can be used as long-range "hail Mary" type shots against fleeing high-value targets. You have to figure out where the target will be after a while, and set the interception to be a little before that to intersect the wake, but since fleeing ships go in the straight line (mostly) that should not be hard. Or if you got the right angle you can shoot it from directly behind.

3) Decoys are life (esp for diesels)

ALWAYS have a decoy loaded, and spend them wisely. Diesel subs should get at least 4 if not 6 decoys, as you need to launch them in PAIRS to achieve a successful evasion against multiple torpedoes. And they need to be launched early ENOUGH to attract torpedoes so when they circle they don't find you again, but late enough that you catch the torpedoes AFTER they activate.

Catching multiple torpedoes between two decoys are not hard. Launch one decoy, to one side of the flock of torpedoes, then another one to the other side, so the torpedoes are "blocked in" by both. The torpedoes will end up doing figure 8 between the two decoys.

4) Save your prestige, except early

You need your prestige quickly, as survival in a Whiskey, which doesn't even have decoys, is extremely problematic. Get into Tango and later, Victor ASAP.

5) Use those "Soviet SUBROCs"

The Soviet SUBROC, i.e. the Vjuga, Vjuga-65, or Vodopad, can be employed tactically to give you an edge against your most sophisticated NATO opponents. Dropping a torpedo in front of them when they have a torpedo already chasing from behind will force them into making a mistake, often a fatal one. And any time they are busy dodging torpedoes is time you can use to get into a more advantageous position and/or close the gap and add more torpedoes, perhaps even a wire-guided one so you can't miss. And they can't be launching torpedoes or guiding torpedoes at you if they are busy dodging yours. Use it to seize the initiative, and never give it up. The trade-off is you need to go shallow to launch those.

[kschang77]

6) GENERIC CAMPAIGN TIP: Remember the 50% rule in the campaign. You only need to kill HALF of the high value targets for HQ to consider your mission a success. If there are 5 ships in the convoy, you only need to kill 3. While is applies to all campaigns, this is esp. important to the Soviet campaign, because you will FAIL a LOT of missions.

7) GENERIC CAMPAIGN TIP: Consider wasting a couple extra torpedoes when you know the attack will be successful, so you can get recalled back to home port for some R&R. The catch is, of course, can you avoid running into something on the way home.

8) GENERIC CAMPAIGN TIP: ONLY do missions that contributes to your prestige points, avoid those that don't. Random encounter with NATO subs and ASW fleet does NOT give you prestige (unless you killed a nuclear boat, IIRC), only experience for your crew, and early on, you are too weak without a sub upgrade, so avoid all encounters, EXCEPT the one you are expecting.

[The Inept European]

Great tips KC.

[kschang77]

9) Soviet only -- Save your points quickly for an upgrade to Foxtrot. Whiskey is almost impossible to survive in except on the easiest levels. With Foxtrot (or Tango) you at least have a chance. You'll notice a vast change in tactics when you upgrade to a Victor I, and then a quantum shift in tactics with Victor II due to the vast difference in weapons. Victor I has the same "primitive" weapons as the diesel boats, except you now have the speed and dive depth to evade (32 kt, 400 m) but even less torps than the Foxtrot, at only 18 (Foxtrot had 22) Loadout would be basically 7 SET-65 IIIs, 7 53-65Ks, and 4 decoys. You basically last ONE mission out there, then retreat, as you never seem to have enough torpedoes.

10) Soviet only -- Victor II introduces various new weapons that fundamentally changes the game: TEST-71M, a true wire-guided torpedo similar to an ealy NATO Mk 48, that's dual purpose... You no longer have to carry separate ASuW vs ASW torpeodes, except for special applications, such as the 65-73 super wakehomers. If you have these, there's no reason to carry the 53-65K at all. So your loadout would consist of 4 things: 4 decoys, 10 TEST-71Ms, 8 65-73s, and 2 Vyuga-65s for emergency ASW use (for total of 24). This gives you far more flexibility.

11) Soviet only -- Victor II tactics: use a TEST-71 to go after the nearest escort, keeping in mind its relatively low range compared to a Mk 48. Once you got the convoy to scatter, Use the 65-73 to pick off individual ships fleeing, preferably from the center of formation so you have an "up the baffle shot" for everyone.

Antisub requires the TEST-71, and using the wire guiding would let you manually guide in the torpedo so you can be more efficient when it comes to torpedoes per kill.

[kschang77]

12) Remember, you CANNOT back out of "change vessel" menu. If you hit BACK, you will NOT get an autosave. It would be as if you've never played the missions before you returned to Murmansk. You have to spend the prestige to get the same ship or the next ship up, provided you have the rank to get it AND the prestige needed.

Once you got in Victor II, the only upgrades are Victor III (400?), Sierra (700), or Akula (800)

Personally, Victor III is not that big of an upgrade. The towed array is barely an improvement, and the addition of Shkval and USET-80, plus replacing Vyuga-65 with Vodopods is not worth the upgrade. And if you're saving up for Sierra, you may as well save up for the Akula with extra torpedoes.

[The Inept European]

That is fantastic advice, particularly for the Soviet side.

[kschang77]

addendum/misc:

I'd take the Akula over the Sierra. Akula can hold 40 weapons/decoys, and has FOUR of those big honking 650mm tubes. And it's just 100 prestige more.

watch for NATO late war tactic: include a submarine in the middle of escort screen

addedum to 12: it's technically NOT true, as you could opt for a Mike-class super-deep-diving experimental sub (much like the Narwhal for the US side) or switch to the SSG/SSGN guided missile track instead of keeping with the SSK/SSN track of fast attack subs, but I generally find it easier to kill convoys as SSK/SSN in 1984 campaign, esp. when you reach mid- to late war when you get the upgraded torps like 65-76, USET-80 and TEST-71.

Early in the war, due to lack of torpedo range, it may be easier with the SSG/SSGN to just lob missiles at the merchants, esp. if the escorts have been pulled out of place by the decoys. But the advantage shifts by mid-war. Even some merchants has anti-missile defense and/or CIWS. But merchies never got torpedo defense like noisemakers.

[kschang77]

13) Use those active sonars

The NATO subs beat you in passive, so you have to exploit your active sonar, which may or may not be better than your opponent's, but it's often good enough to scare them into using their own active sonar, thus revealing their own location for a few seconds.

BONUS: Generally speaking, you *should* shoot a torpedo down reciprocal bearing of ANY contact that pinged you underwater, no matter the range. If you cannot detect it on your passive, it's probably at least 8km away, unless it's a diesel boat, in which case it could be as low as 6 km. This is a good tactics for EVERYONE, but esp. against NATO subs that rely heavily on wire-guided torpedoes, and this often scare them into breaking their wires.

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Addendum to 5) If you have one of the Soviet SUBROC available (Vyuga, Vyuga-65, or Vodopad) learn to use it. The flight time is between 80 to 90 seconds. You can plug that into a converter but here's a very quick rule of thumb, as you need 95% solution on the target.

if the target is moving at less than 10 kts: set the drop point 0.5 km in front of the target.

if the target is moving at between 10 kt and 20 kt: set the drop point 1km to 1.2 km in front of the target.

If a target is moving at over 20 kt: set the drop point to 1.5 km in front of the target.

This of course assumes the NATO sub is not turning. If it is, you may want to wait until it settles on a course before launching.

The torpedo dropped may or may not kill the enemy sub, but that's why you almost always fire a regular torpedo first, THEN sandwich the target between your torpedo, and the torpedo you drop in front of it.

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AS A NATO SUB:

#don't take them lightly

Soviet subs may be somewhat less sophisticated in some ways, such as lack of good dual-purpose torpedoes, but they have fundamentally different tactics than you do. Their wakehomers are extremely dangerous to surface ships, and they have sub-launched air-delivered torpedoes and you don't. (In fact, SUBROC was invented by the Americans, then it and its successor, the Sea Lance, were abandoned because they relied on nuclear warheads, yet the Russians made it work with conventional torpedoes)

#stay at long range and dogleg

You need to keep your range open, rely on your Mk 48's extended range (and in a lesser way, the Tigerfish) and your sensor advantage to hit them in directions they don't expect through a lot of dogleg-ing.

#evade early with upon launch transient

Soviet torpedoes tend to be "fire and forget", not wire guided. Which means if you avoid its sensor cone, which are often limited to about 1 km, you would have evaded it. This changes later with TEST-71 torpedoes and its variants, but it is true in general.

You should CONSIDER immediately turn in a random direction and go flank at ANY "launch transient" for at least 90 seconds if not 120 seconds, or you may find a torpedo dropped near you, unless you're one of the deep dive subs like the Trafalgar and can handle 600m, or you have active decoys that had traveled near hostile subs as the launch may be against them.

Why you should sprint: you don't want a Soviet SUBROC splashing near you.

Why you should NOT sprint: you may want to keep the wire on the Mk 48 (or even the Tigerfish) intact so you can guide the torpedo in to ignore the noisemakers.

Judge carefully. These "Soviet SUBROCs" are advanced weapons, only appearing in Victor III and later submarines. If you don't see one of them, you likely will NOT be facing such.

If you start evasion early, like right after launch transient, you can do a second evasive movement at reduced speed so they will not be able to track you, or you can just do the evasive movement at reduced speed, like 15 kt so you can keep the wires intact.

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14) Against NATO subs, evade early may not work

NATO subs usually fire a wire-guided torpedo, and unless you can force the sub to break the wires, they can guide the torpedo toward you AFTER LAUNCH. So your evasion is ineffective.

Which is why you should fire a torpedo down reciprocal setting if you do get a launch transient and you're sure its aimed at you.

THEN evade. And evade again.

Give NATO torpedoes a healthy distance, stay 2 km from its track, 2.5 if it's doing a snake pattern. Flank speed if you need to.

[kschang77]

15) Consider launching a PAIR of torpedoes, one active, one passive

The idea basically is hoping the enemy evade the active torpedo, only to stumble into the passive torpedo's detection cone.

Launch active torpedo first, then launch passive torpedo on a parallel track, optional snake pattern on both to widen the coverage.

[kschang77]

(And this is after finished a 2nd campaign, tried to start on realistic, had to keep reducing the difficulty as the early diesel boats are not survivable)

[kschang77]

Another ADDENDUM: Upon further examination, Victor III is actually a decent sub to get as an "intro" to the "modern" SSNs (Victor III, Sierra, Akula, Mike)

While the sonars are not as good as the later boats, it at least has a towed array so baffles are protected (somewhat), and it *is* quieter and better sonar than Victor II. I standby my comment that Vyuga-65 is more useful than Vodopad, and Shkval is not really much of a USEFUL weapon. But those 650 tubes are very useful for convoy raids.

[The Inept European]

Loving this analysis...