Submarine Differences and how to Choose.

[JudgementDayIsHere]

So I was wondering what makes each submarine unique? I play the Permit mainly due to its reasonable speed, ok amount of wires, and fine manuverability, but when I look at theSturgeon and Narwhal, what makes them much different?

[rokvam]

The Narwhal was a one time only design. By that I mean that only one was built.

It was very quiet compared to other nucelar subs at the time, and even quieter than some later designs as well.

If you Google it, you will find a lot of cool open source info on it.

-Dolphin 38

[Shaftoe]

Hello!

I think I can help you! You see, there are two campaigns: 1968 and 1984. Some boats, such as Skipjack, Permit and Sturgeon were designed to be used in earlier, 60-s campaign. So they're generally less capable than later designs, i.e Narwhal and Los Angeles. But all those earlier boats received upgrades that allowed them to be present in later, 80-s campaign.

So, we can divide all available boats in two categories:

I. Older Boats (60-s originals and upgraded versions available in the 80-s) - these boats are generally less capable and thus make the game more challenging. They carry less missiles and torpedoes onboard and usually limited to 2 wires max. They're louder and will have significant problems with Soviet latest boats, such as Sierra and Alfa. Enemy ASW ships will have the advantage over them too. So, be careful if you've chosen to play 80-s campaign on one of these:

1. Skipjack - the fastest of all available boats, but also the loudest. Has only 6 torpedo tubes, but only 1 wire.
2. Permit - this boat combines earlier Skipjack's speed and later Sturgeon's quietness, but only partially. Basically, she's a 'Jack of all Trades, master of none'. Why choose her, then? Well, if you favor speed over stealth, but don't want to be limited only to 1 wire - this is your boat.
3. Sturgeon - the most quiet (and slow) boat of it's time period, though inferior to later designs in every respect. A good choice for calculating and cautious captain.


II. Modern Boats (80-s exclusives) - these are the finest boats US Navy has to offer. Silent hunters with expanded arsenals that may outplay virtually any opponent.

1. Narwhal - one off design. Basically, advanced version of earlier Sturgeon, which means that she's capable of carrying more torpedoes/missiles onboard and, more importantly, she is THE MOST QUIET BOAT IN THE GAME at the time. Even later Los Angeles is noisier.
2. Los Angeles - second most quiet boat in the game. Carrying as many torpedoes/missiles as Narwhal. Faster than Narwhal, though larger and less maneuverable. However, this boat has 4 wires availavle.


III. Upcoming boats (boats for 90-s campaign free update) - CLASSIFIED.

1. Improved Los Angeles (also known as 688i) - more silent version of the original Los Angeles with VLS (Vertical Launch System).
2. Seawolf - the God of submarine warfare at the time. Good at everything. Doesn't have VLS.


That's all. Hope this information will be useful to you and other new captains.
Feel free to ask, if you need to know something else.

[McFlurrYs93]

Originally posted by Shaftoe:

Hello!

I think I can help you! You see, there are two campaigns: 1968 and 1984. Some boats, such as Skipjack, Permit and Sturgeon were designed to be used in earlier, 60-s campaign. So they're generally less capable than later designs, i.e Narwhal and Los Angeles. But all those earlier boats received upgrades that allowed them to be present in later, 80-s campaign.

So, we can divide all available boats in two categories:

I. Older Boats (60-s originals and upgraded versions available in the 80-s) - these boats are generally less capable and thus make the game more challenging. They carry less missiles and torpedoes onboard and usually limited to 2 wires max. They're louder and will have significant problems with Soviet latest boats, such as Sierra and Alfa. Enemy ASW ships will have the advantage over them too. So, be careful if you've chosen to play 80-s campaign on one of these:

1. Skipjack - the fastest of all available boats, but also the loudest. Has only 6 torpedo tubes, but only 1 wire.
2. Permit - this boat combines earlier Skipjack's speed and later Sturgeon's quietness, but only partially. Basically, she's a 'Jack of all Trades, master of none'. Why choose her, then? Well, if you favor speed over stealth, but don't want to be limited only to 1 wire - this is your boat.
3. Sturgeon - the most quiet (and slow) boat of it's time period, though inferior to later designs in every respect. A good choice for calculating and cautious captain.


II. Modern Boats (80-s exclusives) - these are the finest boats US Navy has to offer. Silent hunters with expanded arsenals that may outplay virtually any opponent.

1. Narwhal - one off design. Basically, advanced version of earlier Sturgeon, which means that she's capable of carrying more torpedoes/missiles onboard and, more importantly, she is THE MOST QUIET BOAT IN THE GAME at the time. Even later Los Angeles is noisier.
2. Los Angeles - second most quiet boat in the game. Carrying as many torpedoes/missiles as Narwhal. Faster than Narwhal, though larger and less maneuverable. However, this boat has 4 wires availavle.


III. Upcoming boats (boats for 90-s campaign free update) - CLASSIFIED.

1. Improved Los Angeles (also known as 688i) - more silent version of the original Los Angeles with VLS (Vertical Launch System).
2. Seawolf - the God of submarine warfare at the time. Good at everything. Doesn't have VLS.


That's all. Hope this information will be useful to you and other new captains.
Feel free to ask, if you need to know something else.

So by choosing ehich ever sub does the game cater ie with some you might get more incertions then with others you'll get more replenishment at sea missions

[r4y30n]

One other thing to consider is active sonar return, especially when attacking surface escorts. The Skipjack and Permit have the smallest active return while the Los Angeles has the largest return with Sturgeon and Narwhal in the middle.

[Safetypin]

The choice of submarine is dependent of your playstyle.
If you're cautious and prefer stealthy attacks, play Sturgeon in 1968 or Narwhal in 1984.
If you like more action and occasional adrinaline rushes, go with the Skipjack in both campaigns.
For the captains in between, there are the Permit in 1968 and Los Angeles in 1984 to suit you well.

[joshuacwilder]

Originally posted by r4y30n:

One other thing to consider is active sonar return, especially when attacking surface escorts. The Skipjack and Permit have the smallest active return while the Los Angeles has the largest return with Sturgeon and Narwhal in the middle.

actually, Skipjack and Permit didn't have Anechoic tiles, so they'd probably have larger sonar returns.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

I don't know why ANYONE would choose something other than Skipjack.



One wire was never a problem, but you have six tubes and over 30 knots top speed (33 I think). You can evade torpedoes all day long.



AFAIK, Skipjacks in 84 don't have some weapons such as Harpoon or any missiles whatsoever, correct me if I'm wrong here.

[toinkertoy]

Originally posted by joshuacwilder:

actually, Skipjack and Permit didn't have Anechoic tiles, so they'd probably have larger sonar returns.

Currently none of the U.S. subs have these tiles in-game. My understanding is they weren’t put on until post-1984.

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by toinkertoy:

Originally posted by joshuacwilder:

actually, Skipjack and Permit didn't have Anechoic tiles, so they'd probably have larger sonar returns.

Currently none of the U.S. subs have these tiles in-game. My understanding is they weren’t put on until post-1984.

Last I heard, the Los Angeles has it in the game files, but they don't actually do anything in-game.

Anyway, as a basic rule, the more modern the tech, the easier it will be for a given scenario. Taking a Skipjack in 1984 is basically just playing it on hard mode, because you're going to be literally several times as loud as any other ship you can pick, and you will be detected on passive from great ranges, making many of the stealth missions (like the SEAL team infiltration in particular) nearly impossible. (Cue the Skipjack captains always complaining about how hard those missions are and how they always skip them, and can't they just be removed from the game, already?!)

In 1984, you basically want the Los Angeles unless you really want to play it slow and silent because it's the fastest, is more maneuverable, carries the most ammo (but tied with Narwhal), has the best sonar (but tied with everything but the Skipjack), and is generally capable of murdering everything in the water so long as your ammo holds out. In particular, having the best sonar suite (except Narwhal, which has the same suite) is key because being able to hear the enemy first makes your life vastly easier, as you can engage the enemy from much further out, which more than makes up for having a slightly larger profile for active sonar to ping off of.

The Narwhal is the only available submarine that isn't objectively inferior to the LA in 1984. It can dive 50% deeper, and runs much more quietly, but it is *significantly* slower, so you'll have more trouble dealing with torpedoes if that silence fails you.

On the whole, I recommend a LA to beginners, since it's a more forgiving craft that favors more immediate action, but a more patient player (and this is a game that involves a lot of creeping and waiting, already) may definitely find the Narwhal more their style.

The other three are available in the '68 campaign, and should only be taken in '68 unless you are looking for a challenge. I'd personally recommend the Sturgeon class (it's basically a less-quiet Narwhal, since the Narwhal was just a super-prototype built on a Sturgeon's chasis) since it is the most quiet even if it's the slowest, since getting very, VERY close is necessary for using the '68 torpedoes effectively. The Permit class, however, is fairly similar to the Sturgeon in capabilities, trading some of the silence for a little more speed, so the choices aren't quite so stark. Just don't take a Skipjack, unless you want to be stuck in permanent torpedo evasion when you can't hear anything until after they've already fired upon you. (Wires are vastly more important in '68, so only having one wire will make the game vastly more frustrating.)

There is a section in the '68 guide on the '68 choices in particular.

[toinkertoy]

My game files all have “FALSE” for “AnechoicCoating” on U.S. boats. Though I’ve not actually tried changing the code to “TRUE” to see if it works or not.

since they weren’t actually put on U.S. subs until after 84 it’s possible that coding is there for future updates and does nothing if changed right now.


[Acoustics & Sensors]
SelfNoise=125
ActiveSonarReflection=30
ActiveSonarModel=usn_an_bqq_5
PassiveSonarModel=usn_an_bqq_5
TowedArrayModel=usn_tb_16
AnechoicCoating=FALSE
RADAR=usn_bps_15
RADARSignature=SMALL
TowedArrayPosition=-0.109,0.003,-0.779