Main bus "siphoning"

[Lomas]

So we have a factory with a main bus. How do you siphon off products/materials from a line without eventually depleting the belt because of every splitter being a small bottleneck?
Is it just not possible to collect for example all screws on one belt and then every time you need screws, just put a splitter followed by a belt of appropriate make?

Do we simply have to accept that you need a lot of belts for one single product/material?

Any tips on how to set this up would be greatly appreciated!

[sansee]

Well, there's these two if you need more advanced methods:
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Smart_Splitter
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Programmable_Splitter

Bottleneck? Splitters work as fast as the belt connected to them.

[Edmund Greyfox]

The thing with splitters is that only split what the belt(s) they are flowing onto can take.

I'm fairly new to this game, so my explanation is probably lousy, but if you run one belt through a line of splitters each will only siphon off as much as it takes to fill the belt and machine it is running to and will let any excess flow by to the next set of splitters. The end result is that the last set of machines in the line will be the last supplied, but that if you have enough coming in on the main input belt to supply all the machines that eventually all the belts will be totally saturated and every machine will have enough input to operate at 100%. You might want to check out some of the youtube videos on manifold systems, since they explain it better then i can.

[sansee]

Also, with a combo of the overflow system with the manifold system you can constantly feed the main bus line (or even off of it). Put one above the other line using a combo of splitters and mergers with lifts. That's what I do all the time in my factories.

But, it does require much more space...

[sansee]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but this is just one of many examples:
https://i.imgur.com/yIct5nK.png
https://imgur.com/a/ELsRXPD

This is without smart splitters, but with it you can do much much more...

[cywizz]

It is a balancing act for sure...
On my bus, I have 2 screw lines coming in on MK4 belts. After each use, I do a load balance between the lines, as seen in the image below. This way you can at least balance the lines as it moves through the manufacturing plants.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2230178007

I do not use many mods, but one I find very valueable is the efficiency mod. It helps a lot when added on the bus lines to see input vs output. See example below:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2230178238

Good luck!

[Lomas]

Origineel geplaatst door sansee:

Well, there's these two if you need more advanced methods:
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Smart_Splitter
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Programmable_Splitter

Bottleneck? Splitters work as fast as the belt connected to them.

Yes, but isn't it true that each splitter causes the ammount of units to decrease on the other side of it simply because of the "delay" that is introduced when the splitter does it's thing?
Even if, theoretically, I would have an unlimited number of units on the belt.

[Lomas]

Origineel geplaatst door cywizz:

It is a balancing act for sure...
On my bus, I have 2 screw lines coming in on MK4 belts. After each use, I do a load balance between the lines, as seen in the image below. This way you can at least balance the lines as it moves through the manufacturing plants.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2230178007

I do not use many mods, but one I find very valueable is the efficiency mod. It helps a lot when added on the bus lines to see input vs output. See example below:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2230178238

Good luck!

Aaaah interesting! I guess that's the way to go then.

Thanks!

[sansee]

Origineel geplaatst door Lomas:

Yes, but isn't it true that each splitter causes the ammount of units to decrease on the other side of it simply because of the "delay" that is introduced when the splitter does it's thing?
Even if, theoretically, I would have an unlimited number of units on the belt.

It's like a switch or two water slides combining so it happens instantly, but the splitter do have an internal buffer if the outgoing line gets busy. It alternates the polling between the in-going belts and thus one/two belt needs to wait until it is its turn again if both has incoming items at the same time, but the throughput is instantly (unless you count the time the CPU/GPU has to calculate it).

You could say that the item that has to wait is "delayed", but there are no time delay or amount decrease on the out-going belt.

You see this on the out-going belt that the items (or products) are lined up close without space (unless there wasn't anything coming in at that instant), but then again, it depends on the belt speed. Faster belts means faster splitter.

Also, related for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsy1BgmYvSA

[sansee]

Another trick I use is to use a slower belt into smelters (Mark 1 f.ex) and other so that items aren't "siphoned" off of the bus too fast.

[Lomas]

Origineel geplaatst door sansee:

Origineel geplaatst door Lomas:

Yes, but isn't it true that each splitter causes the ammount of units to decrease on the other side of it simply because of the "delay" that is introduced when the splitter does it's thing?
Even if, theoretically, I would have an unlimited number of units on the belt.

It's like a switch or two water slides combining so it happens instantly, but the splitter do have an internal buffer if the outgoing line gets busy. It alternates the polling between the in-going belts and thus one/two belt needs to wait until it is its turn again if both has incoming items at the same time, but the throughput is instantly (unless you count the time the CPU/GPU has to calculate it).

You could say that the item that has to wait is "delayed", but there are no time delay or amount decrease on the out-going belt.

You see this on the out-going belt that the items (or products) are lined up close without space (unless there wasn't anything coming in at that instant), but then again, it depends on the belt speed. Faster belts means faster splitter.

Also, related for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsy1BgmYvSA

Great info, thanks!

So in short, the only thing to "worry" about when taking units of a belt using splitters is the actual number of units that are being taken? (which would make load balancing between two belts a good idea anyway.)

[sansee]

Origineel geplaatst door Lomas:

So in short, the only thing to "worry" about when taking units of a belt using splitters is the actual number of units that are being taken? (which would make load balancing between two belts a good idea anyway.)

Yes, nothing more. The main principle is to add and subtract the numbers all the way, depending on what setup you're going for.

[Lost SEAF recruit]

I haven't really seen an answer to the thing I think is actually being asked or I missed it.

When you have a line and put 3 splitters on it. The first splitter takes 50% (or 33% if you use 3 lines), the second splitter takes 50% of 50% so only 25% is left, the third splitter takes 50% of that so only 12.5% is left for both belts.

I was hoping the programmable splitter would let me modify the % of things going one way or another, or the amount of units that should be send over. So if I have a need for 40 units of Screws per minute, I can send exactly send 40 screws per minute to that side (assuming the supply is available). One side has to be made the flow side where any excess normally moves to. This way a long bus supplying half a factory won't have overflow at the beginning and has to build up that overflow over the entire factory floor until the last production building gets it's share and the thing stabilizes.
Without that I'm not sure how to really build a proper bus that supplies my entire factory floor evenly, at least not with massive amounts of splitters for each "exit". Split it once, split the output again and merge it with the main line. Put enough splitters in a row to siphon off the exact % of items the production facility needs. But that heavily depends on the influx of items per minute you need, you have and how many more production facilities are going to be fed by the thing. For fractions not covered by the "half the output each time" rule you have to split and merge it half a dozen time to get the right output. In large volume cases you can require several times the surface area of a constructor just to split it for one production facility. It's absolute madness and a simple actually programmable splitter would be so damn awesome even if you can only program it in percentages.

On that note, I'm also missing merger/splitter combinations. I sometimes want two inputs and two outputs on one box so I can modify it more easily. And naturally an elevator-splitter, elevator merger and elevator splitter/merger combination would complete the picture.

[sansee]

Origineel geplaatst door Demigan:

So if I have a need for 40 units of Screws per minute, I can send exactly send 40 screws per minute to that side (assuming the supply is available)

You don't really need to tell it exactly, as the assembler only take 40, the rest between the splitter and the assembler is considered a minor "buffer". Put on a mark 1 belt for these 40 and solved.

If you need to "get these back" again - run another line to constantly supply the main line right after those 40 took off (either horizontally, like cywizz showed, or vertically like I showed).

I usually build for overflow/manifold to not over-crazy on the numbers. I OC the miner and max out the belt every step of the way, and let every step build up a sizeable buffer before moving on, whilst I'm building. For small factories, splitting normally (load balancing) is a good way (but uses a lot of space, and really not needed), but manifold is for when you're going large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF1W1Nl-YGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJtHdgSBpRQ

[Songbird]

Load balancing is generally fairly easy when you're working with numbers of machines with a prime factorization that only includes powers of 2 and 3. For 2^n machines, each belt needs to split into two belts n times starting from the main line. For 3^n machines, each belt needs to split into three n times. You can use combinations of both if you have say six machines.

Load balancing is generally only necessary when you will not have a consistent stream of products though, e.g. when trains and trucks are involved or when power outages occur. Anything that goes directly from miner/pump to machine will just back up on the belts that are getting excess and then start to distribute itself in the ratios the machines are using, as long as you aren't trying to consume more than your input can sustain. If you're not load balancing and you don't yet meet your own demand, you might as well underclock your machines rather than take up the space to load balance (as you don't actually get any more product through load balancing than with underclocking), unless changing the clock speed back later is somehow worse than the massive amount of extra time and space needed to load balance.

I personally just have all my production lines with just a belt going through a big row of splitters, and then the outputs go through a big row of mergers. It's compact and easy to add/remove machines. The only math you have to do is make sure that total input is greater than or equal to total consumption (ideally equal; best to build more machines and underclock in many situtations where it's not) and making sure your belts all actually support the throughput required.

[Lomas]

Origineel geplaatst door sansee:

Origineel geplaatst door Demigan:

I usually build for overflow/manifold to not over-crazy on the numbers. I OC the miner and max out the belt every step of the way, and let every step build up a sizeable buffer before moving on, whilst I'm building. For small factories, splitting normally (load balancing) is a good way (but uses a lot of space, and really not needed), but manifold is for when you're going large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF1W1Nl-YGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJtHdgSBpRQ

Interesting, thanks! I would love every belt to have an even flow all the way but maybe that's too much work then (if even possible in reality.)