Japanese-to-english subs?

[Jarrod]

I was curious if someone took the time to properly subtitle the Japanese VO of the game. Lots of games (BOTW is a huge example) have a different voice over for the game, yet the subtitles will still be for the English version, despite them clearly saying different words. Was just wondering if there is a mod or such that changes the subtitles in the game to properly convey words said in Japanese instead of just being the exact same for the English version. I doubt it, but I figured I'd throw the question out there just in case.

[宮内凛]

can you give an example of when the english subtitles don't match the japanese voiceover?

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Morita Hikaru:

can you give an example of when the english subtitles don't match the japanese voiceover?

It's pretty well known that Japanese 2B and English 2B are very different characters. English 2B is more snarky and sassy, Japanese 2B is more strict and stern, while giving way better emotional performances when needed. An example I can immediately think of is in the prologue when 9S and 2B black-box themselves to kill the goliaths. When 2B realizes there's more than 1, the English VA sarcastically says "oh, great" but the Japanese VA says (my weeb skills are extremely limited so I only know a few words and phrases) something along the lines of "no way...". It's a small difference, but it adds up.

BOTW had a huge localization problem with not only the voices portraying different characters, but the text entries too. Link has little blurbs in the quest details that, in the English version, they are third person and lend no emotional weight. In the Japanese version, they are first person to Link, and show what he thinks and feels. Example:

JPN: (I) remembered all the things we've been through. Even just a little bit sooner, (I) wish to see her smiles again with my own eyes

US: You've visited all 13 locations shown in the pictures, go save her as quickly as you can to ease her burden.

My point is that localization can (and does) commonly screw with the intended story and feelings, and English localizers will "normalize" story elements to I guess not sound weird? I'm not sure why really, I just know it happens, and I was wondering if someone who is way into the story, had gone through and re-localized all the text in English. (preferably just the subs, but all of it would be nice too)

[Tahlmut]

I don't know of any fan mods that do it yet.

NieR Replicant 1.22 is the same way. Dubtitles, not proper subtitles.
While the majority of dialogue lines up, there are always bits and pieces that are different and can give quite a different feeling. Or small things that are completely omitted for whatever reason, when they really should keep all the details they can.

Things I've read about:

Yonah mentions their mom and dad at one point, not in English

One of the reading sections mentions empty cradles and burned bodies of babies or children - this is changed to empty beds and charred bodies.

Another reading segment about Kainé's past mentions the bully kids pulling at her clothes and trying to tear them off to see her genitals and mock her for being intersex. There's no mention of the clothing being torn or that "she's not a real girl" which makes it all that more traumatic. It's all made more vague in English, having them punch and kick her instead and just call her a freak.

And it's PURELY TEXT, why even change it? Morality? Too harsh for the average "gamer?"

I hate the term localization. All I think when I hear it is, "Great, what did they screw up this time? What was censored?"

While the English dub is still an overall enjoyable game, it *is* a little different. It's more vague and lacks those finer details.

This kind of thing, proper subtitles to the JP dub, really needs to be industry standard.

[Megami]

There are a few differences but on the whole they are the same. Japanese is a difficult language to translate literally. See this link for the major ones
https://theark.wiki/w/Localization_Differences

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by Megami:

There are a few differences but on the whole they are the same. Japanese is a difficult language to translate literally. See this link for the major ones
https://theark.wiki/w/Localization_Differences

That is good to know, thank you for the very interesting link!

[Minneyar]

Originally posted by Jarrod:

(my weeb skills are extremely limited so I only know a few words and phrases) [...] My point is that localization can (and does) commonly screw with the intended story and feelings, and English localizers will "normalize" story elements to I guess not sound weird? I'm not sure why really, I just know it happens, and I was wondering if someone who is way into the story, had gone through and re-localized all the text in English. (preferably just the subs, but all of it would be nice too)

The reason it happens, and the reason you will likely never see any kind of mod that retranslates the subtitles, is because anybody who is actually fluent in both Japanese and English and is capable of writing a translation realizes that simply replacing one word with its equivalent in another language is not sufficient for translating a body of text. Doing so ignores the intent that was behind the text, and the goal of a translation is to provoke the same reaction from a reader as the original language. That's especially true for something written by Yoko Taro, who is intentionally aiming to cause specific emotions.

[Daionor]

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

(my weeb skills are extremely limited so I only know a few words and phrases) [...] My point is that localization can (and does) commonly screw with the intended story and feelings, and English localizers will "normalize" story elements to I guess not sound weird? I'm not sure why really, I just know it happens, and I was wondering if someone who is way into the story, had gone through and re-localized all the text in English. (preferably just the subs, but all of it would be nice too)

The reason it happens, and the reason you will likely never see any kind of mod that retranslates the subtitles, is because anybody who is actually fluent in both Japanese and English and is capable of writing a translation realizes that simply replacing one word with its equivalent in another language is not sufficient for translating a body of text. Doing so ignores the intent that was behind the text, and the goal of a translation is to provoke the same reaction from a reader as the original language. That's especially true for something written by Yoko Taro, who is intentionally aiming to cause specific emotions.

See this would work as a valid argument if the emotions the english text/va's and the Japanese va's were even anywhere close to the same. The English "translation" seems to be a far more aloof, less emotional story than the Japanese voices in the game portray. And when listening to the Japanese voices with English subtitles, it causes more than a few conflicting issues with emotions being conveyed by the VA and the text.

[deidian]

Originally posted by Daionor:

See this would work as a valid argument if the emotions the english text/va's and the Japanese va's were even anywhere close to the same. The English "translation" seems to be a far more aloof, less emotional story than the Japanese voices in the game portray. And when listening to the Japanese voices with English subtitles, it causes more than a few conflicting issues with emotions being conveyed by the VA and the text.

I don't have any idea of how a mad japanese speaks, or when they're happy, or what they consider highly offensive in oral speech instead of just maybe a friendly joke or sarcasm: whether pattern, content, dialect or mood.

What I mean is: I can't consisder myself qualified to catch emotions in the japanese VA, at best I can try to guess and pray I'm right. So I would just match VA and subtitles. Mixing them would be a good experiment for someone fluent and knowledgeable of both languages and cultures.

VA and translation isn't just going word by word, it's about adapting what's being told to the target language and culture. Sometimes there isn't even a solution and something must be lost. Joke ending, but serves well:

aji wo [K]utta is outright ¿japanese?. Guess it's untranslatable to english, it's a cultural thing(doesn't make sense for anyone outside japanese even if translated), it doesn't make sense in japanese so they left it unstranslated to ensure it wouldn't make sense for english speakers too or there's no way to make it rhyme with the ending text or action that leads to the ending.

[Megami]

Originally posted by Jarrod:

Originally posted by Megami:

There are a few differences but on the whole they are the same. Japanese is a difficult language to translate literally. See this link for the major ones
https://theark.wiki/w/Localization_Differences

That is good to know, thank you for the very interesting link!

Happy to share the little info I had

[The Lion Gamer]

I would also love for a mod like this to exist

[ゴールデン StuStu]

probably marketing intend for american/western player
the game is fairly experimental, unlike, for example: final fantasy
there were a lot to worry. the game could be a flop

the old nier replicant have two different versions: Japan Version and Western Version

one comparable opposite is 'Ghost of Tsushima'
although comprehensible, to native japanese the conversation can be quite strange
because originally it was begun in English, then to japanese
https://note.com/sopomun/n/n1fc9bee7121e

[ゴールデン StuStu]

Originally posted by Megami:

There are a few differences but on the whole they are the same. Japanese is a difficult language to translate literally. See this link for the major ones
https://theark.wiki/w/Localization_Differences

interesting to see this person checking the difference
actually there are Japan people playing with English Voice + Japan sub

Originally posted by The Lion Gamer:

I would also love for a mod like this to exist

do mean playing with JP Voice + Eng Sub (translation from JP Voice)?

if only 2B's voice, maybe still make sense. if the whole game that would take forever

western 2B [Eng] is mature woman
eastern 2B [JP] is obedient girl

that person who made the Localization_differences page has sufficient capability
try contact that person, probably already have the translation in hand
then just have to put it into the game