Why is this game praised for its story?

[Il Luppoooo]

It seems that many people cannot distinguish between the initial setting and the actual plot. The initial setting of this game is very intriguing: the alien invasion, the machines, mankind exiled on the moon, YoRHa and so on. The actual plot developement, meaning the set of events going on from here, is actually poor.

For most of the time you just follow the commander's orders to go here and there performing unrelated tasks with no actual feeling of progress. I'm not talking about side quests, I'm talking about main story quests. The, once in a while a major machine attack randomly happens (Engles in city ruins, Grun in the ocean, Eve going mad, the virus attack, ...) and it starts all over again. Almost no development whatsoever.

An actual plot has to feature agents (e.g. characters) having a purpose and trying to reach it, interacting with other agents and the environment, making a series of events unfold. This happens very rarely in Nier: Automata. The only part where they really tried to do it is with Adam and Eve, but they end up doing almost nothing. You can literally summarize all they do in a couple of lines.

Things get a little better with run C, but it's still not enough to make a solid, deep plot. Pacing is badly managed, lots of questions at the beginning and way too much stuff going on in the final tower, with some random, fuzzy Deus-Ex-Machina moments (A2 fckin up the red girl by not attacking) and forcedly introduced wtf plot twists (2B = 2E).

Some claim this game brings storytelling to the highest level, but I think it's actually nowhere near the average of classic JRPGs from 20 years ago. Storytelling from any Final Fantasy from 6 to 10 (don't know about the more recent ones) just crushes Nier: Automata very, very badly. Did people forget about those games?

[Aemony]

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

forcedly introduced wtf plot twists (2B = 2E)

Forcedly...? That twist was foreshadowed throughout the whole game.

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

An actual plot has to feature agents (e.g. characters) having a purpose and trying to reach it, interacting with other agents and the environment, making a series of events unfold. This happens very rarely in Nier: Automata.

That literally describes the whole game. The initial introduction sequence is all about allowing YoRHa units to break through the defense line protecting the area the game takes place in, and after the introduction sequence 2B and 9S gets assigned to scout out the new area. This causes them to interact with various characters in the area which further unfolds the story and new areas to be explored.

The story as a whole might not win any awards, but *what* and *how* it explores themes are quite refreshing in the gaming media.

[Seda]

I found I could give a quarter cup of crap about the characters here, which most games don't get from me.

[Il Luppoooo]

Publicado originalmente por Aemony:

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

forcedly introduced wtf plot twists (2B = 2E)

Forcedly...? That twist was foreshadowed throughout the whole game.

Maybe I missed something here, but 2B kills 9S only once, after the battle with Eve. Is there anything else?

Publicado originalmente por Aemony:

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

An actual plot has to feature agents (e.g. characters) having a purpose and trying to reach it, interacting with other agents and the environment, making a series of events unfold. This happens very rarely in Nier: Automata.

That literally describes the whole game. The initial introduction sequence is all about allowing YoRHa units to break through the defense line protecting the area the game takes place in, and after the introduction sequence 2B and 9S gets assigned to scout out the new area. This causes them to interact with various characters in the area which further unfolds the story and new areas to be explored.

Not really. First, they get assigned to something, they don't have a purpose on their own. But that is not necessarily a problem. Having agents with a purpose is just a general paradigm to develop an event progession (and to establish connection with the characters). The problem here is that there is no such progression. It's very rare to find one event building on top of another one. The game main story is mostly about 2B and 9S hanging around performing a series of unrelated tasks they are assigned to. Again, this would be legitimate for sub quests, but I'm talking about the main quest here.

[myhr2]

Aren't you confusing story with plot? One might argue that Nier Automata's plot is indeed simple and rather chaotic and even confusing, but this is not the main focus. As you reckon, the setting is what shines, and the relative impact (or lack thereof) that the characters have. This is a story about two (three?) androids trapped in an endless cycle of life and death, and their struggle within this cycle.

The fact that the characters have goals aka purpose that is not reflected in their missions is one of the core theme of the game, the weight of the world that crushes everything and lead to another repeat of the cycle.

And if you pay attention, the most important thing is not really what happens to the world but rather what happens to the characters, emotionally speaking.

If you think 2B only killed 9S once, then you're indeed likely to have overlooked some parts of the story.

[Aemony]

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

Publicado originalmente por Aemony:

Forcedly...? That twist was foreshadowed throughout the whole game.

Maybe I missed something here, but 2B kills 9S only once, after the battle with Eve. Is there anything else?

Almost every interaction the two have hints of something more. 2B's opening dialogue is also regarding her being trapped in the never-ending cycle of death and rebirth as she is forced to kill 9S again and again, over and over for all times.

It's subtle clues, to be sure, but they're there. The side-quest where you hunt down the other Executioner model is also riddled with hints.

Hell, even 2B closing her fist in anger after the initial reset of 9S after the prologue sequence hints of something more, as such anger would be hard to explain if they actually only knew each other for the few minutes and minimal interactions they had during that mission.

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

Publicado originalmente por Aemony:

That literally describes the whole game. The initial introduction sequence is all about allowing YoRHa units to break through the defense line protecting the area the game takes place in, and after the introduction sequence 2B and 9S gets assigned to scout out the new area. This causes them to interact with various characters in the area which further unfolds the story and new areas to be explored.

Not really. First, they get assigned to something, they don't have a purpose on their own. But that is not necessarily a problem. Having agents with a purpose is just a general paradigm to develop an event progession (and to establish connection with the characters). The problem here is that there is no such progression. It's very rare to find one event building on top of another one. The game main story is mostly about 2B and 9S hanging around performing a series of unrelated tasks they are assigned to. Again, this would be legitimate for sub quests, but I'm talking about the main quest here.

I still don't see it. Everything they do builds on top of a previous event, from how 9S and 2B gets assigned to scout the area after 2B successfully defeated the defense line in one area, allowing YoRHa units to finally move in, to scouting the resistance camp, to accessing the desert and subsequent exploration and triggering of Adam, etc.

Remove 2B from the prologue and nothing else would follow. Similarly, remove 9S from that same sequence and nothing else would, again, follow.

The events follow a certain chronological order since they rely on previous events having taken place. You can't remove an even from the order without the following events being impacted. Prevent 2B and 9S from helping Jackass destroy the barrier preventing access to the desert area? Adam wouldn't be created and subsequently the copied city and discovery of the Alien ships wouldn't be either, etc, etc.

There's some gaps between chapters, to be sure, but nothing major and events in the new chapter still relies on events having taken place in the previous chapters.

[Seda]

It is hard for games to compare with the epic story of Ride to Hell: Retribution. If you haven't played it yet, you need to. It's fantastic.

[xabungle]

Enjoyed NA story a lot and started playing Nier and the Drakengard games which is making me appreciate the NA story even more so . Lots of lore and interesting developments through out this world over time.

[Mizurazu]

NieR has some very interesting elements maybe not super plot related. If you have the time to sit through this, I found this to be an interesting video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehM1m5-TG5g

[xabungle]

It was very interesting. Thx

[Exarch_Alpha]

It´s a very good story. If it´s the best it´s up to personal taste. Some people like hip hop or rap. I think it´s trash.

See where this is going? Opinions on art are subjective. You disliked the story OP? Ok. Sorry it wasn´t for you.

[Il Luppoooo]

Publicado originalmente por Exarch_Alpha:

It´s a very good story. If it´s the best it´s up to personal taste. Some people like hip hop or rap. I think it´s trash.

See where this is going? Opinions on art are subjective. You disliked the story OP? Ok. Sorry it wasn´t for you.

Thanks, but you can copy-paste the exact same answer to every discussion about pretty much anything. That's definitely true, but still there is a point about human beings discussing stuff.

[myhr2]

@ Il Luppoooo : you'd be surprised about the number of person that disagree with this, and discussion often deviate to this subject instead.

As for Nier : Automata story, I also want to add that the story is told in a way that includes the player, not by giving him/her choices in the writing of the story itself, which is quite hard to do and is kinda the accepted way to go in video games (multiple endings, choices that matter, etc...) but by acknowledging the way players invest themselves in games, and wrapping the narrative around this element. There are two semi-hidden themes in Nier : Automata that really make it worth playing, imho : first one is the definition of humanity, which is present in numerous plot points, but especially shines in the pod's dialogues during the whole game, and second one is the importance of the player on the story's writing itself, both while playing the game but also during the game's development. This is not specific to video games, that a cultural product would be designed with the spectator/viewer/reader in mind, but one thing video games are doing very-well is making the player invested, and rewarding him/her, and the writing really plays on that, as the many details in pretty much every aspect of the game do. It's very obvious during ending E with all the 4th wall-breaking, but I would argue it's also present all along, and makes the whole story stand out.

[Il Luppoooo]

Publicado originalmente por Aemony:

I still don't see it. Everything they do builds on top of a previous event, from how 9S and 2B gets assigned to scout the area after 2B successfully defeated the defense line in one area, allowing YoRHa units to finally move in, to scouting the resistance camp, to accessing the desert and subsequent exploration and triggering of Adam, etc.

Remove 2B from the prologue and nothing else would follow. Similarly, remove 9S from that same sequence and nothing else would, again, follow.

The events follow a certain chronological order since they rely on previous events having taken place. You can't remove an even from the order without the following events being impacted. Prevent 2B and 9S from helping Jackass destroy the barrier preventing access to the desert area? Adam wouldn't be created and subsequently the copied city and discovery of the Alien ships wouldn't be either, etc, etc.

There's some gaps between chapters, to be sure, but nothing major and events in the new chapter still relies on events having taken place in the previous chapters.

Ok, I'll get more real. In run A alone there are 5 quests in which progress is interrupted and the plot switches abruptly to something unrelated (https://nierautomata.wiki.fextralife.com/Main+Story+Quests):
- MIA
- Assault
- The Forest Kingdom
- Resupply
- Olive Branch

Also, no character has a purpose in run A, except for Adam and Eve, but their endeavor is given the space of just two quests ("Flooded City Recon" and "9S captured"). These two aspects give me the feeling that there is no development in the plot, the game is not progressing towards anything, characters are left passively jumping from one (short, hence shallow) storyline to another pushed by the commander's orders or catastrophic events out of their control.
You'll probably keep not agreeing with me at this point, but I wanted to explain myself as thoroughly as possible.

[Aemony]

2B and 9S are YoRHa androids. The whole point of them is to be emotionless killing machines that focuses on the mission and little else. "Emotions are prohibited", and all that. For 2B and 9S the "primary mission" is scouting out the area of the game, which is their overreaching mission they got at the start of the game from the Commander and everything else fuels into somehow in route A/B. Meanwhile various underlying threads run underneath which will evolve and affect later parts of the game.

For example, while I agree that the jump to the MIA quest can be a bit abrupt, I wouldn't say that progress is interrupted. 2B/9S have just returned to the Resistance Camp from having helped Jackass and YoRHa forces to access the Desert area where they ran across Adam. They've finished scouting a new area and sets out to scout some more when suddenly the Commander tells them of missing YoRHa units that recently had descended to the surface but was lost somewhere along the way. That whole quest starts the Amusement Park quest line (scouting a new area!), which leads up to the Machine Village (scouting another area!!), and so on and so forth.

So yeah, I still disagree when you say characters have no purpose in route A/B. Both 9S and 2B's main purpose is and will ever be to scout the area and further YoRHa's interests in the newly unlocked area.

The game is designed the way it is for a reason. During route A/B individualism and characters' own actions, emotions, wishes, etc of YoRHa androids are downplayed in favor of YoRHa's purpose and goals as a whole (accessing the area they were cut off from, scouting the area, achieving various purposes in the area, etc).

The characters are but cogs in a massive war machine, with few glimpses of individualism here and there. During route C, with the fall of YoRHa, the characters are instead pushed to the forefront. They are no longer merely a small cog in a massive war machine, but dictates their own actions and beliefs.

As I mentioned before the story itself might not win any awards, but it isn't really the point of the game either. This game doesn't hook people for their story/plot/whatever but for the themes it explores and the revelations and surprises it throws at you on the way, courtesy of the multitude of subplots running below the surface.

[Exarch_Alpha]

Publicado originalmente por Il Luppoooo:

Also, no character has a purpose in run A, except for Adam and Eve, but their endeavor is given the space of just two quests ("Flooded City Recon" and "9S captured"). These two aspects give me the feeling that there is no development in the plot, the game is not progressing towards anything, characters are left passively jumping from one (short, hence shallow) storyline to another pushed by the commander's orders or catastrophic events out of their control.
You'll probably keep not agreeing with me at this point, but I wanted to explain myself as thoroughly as possible.

You missed thepoint of the story completely then.

The protagonists of the story are the machines not you. Look what happens during the whole game. You are reacting to stuff THEY do, not otherwise. Why? Simple, the machines could wipe the androids any time they wanted. They have the advantage in numbers AND when they WANT, in quality (Adam was vastly superior even to YoRHa androids). They just didn´t because else they would have no one else to fight.

The game is about THEIR growth and achieving new purpose. The androids? Well humanity is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ anyway...

The only real problem with the plot is that it isn´t clear what will happen regarding humanity in the future.