Was 2B and 9S's Relationship Romantic?

[Neriah]

I wonder how much of my interpretation of their relationship just comes from my heteronormative cultural conditioning.

When I went through the first playthrough I had no doubt in my head that 9S must've had romantic feelings for 2B. He invites her out on a pretty standard japanese style date when they're talking in the shopping center and there is a moment in the Amnesia subquest where 2B become pissy and jealous because she thinks 9S is helping the E-type because she is pretty.

I felt like all of these little hints meant, yeah, this game wants you to think of 2B and 9S as a couple. On the other hand, all of the relationships depicted in the game show characters behaving kind of like life partners with incredibly intimate ties to each other. Adam and Eve are together constantly, looking after each other and so are Popola and Devola.

Somebody mentioned that you can't call a romantic relationship that until it's literally spelled out for you.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Are 9S and 2B a canon couple?

[Zehm]

No. 9S says as much in his ending. He saw her as family and he was a lonely guy. They have a sibling relationship.

[Neriah]

Автор сообщения: Djinn8

No. 9S says as much in his ending. He saw her as family and he was a lonely guy. They have a sibling relationship.

Really?? Geeze. They all have really strange sibling relationships then. I would never get jealous of my bro if he was hitting on other women.

Then again. I guess it's a complicated situation~

[Zehm]

Don;t you think that 2B might be getting ruffled by 9S talking to the E type because it's getting a bit close to her own secret. I mean she might have known that the android was an E type and didn't want 9S poking around and learning of their existance.

[Neriah]

Автор сообщения: Djinn8

Don;t you think that 2B might be getting ruffled by 9S talking to the E type because it's getting a bit close to her own secret. I mean she might have known that the android was an E type and didn't want 9S poking around and learning of their existance.

I mean, maybe? I feel like that might be reading into it a bit much though. The dialogue reads more like a rom-com with 2B acting like a jealous girlfriend and 9S the exasperated butt of the joke.

[lessthanoff]

Автор сообщения: Neriah

Автор сообщения: Djinn8

No. 9S says as much in his ending. He saw her as family and he was a lonely guy. They have a sibling relationship.

Really?? Geeze. They all have really strange sibling relationships then. I would never get jealous of my bro if he was hitting on other women.

Then again. I guess it's a complicated situation~

I think "complicated" is the best way to describe their relationship. The romance is hinted at, moreso in the stage play and short stories written by Yoko Taro. I think it's safe to say that 2B has strong feelings for 9S, but whether those feelings are romantic, I'm not entirely sure. I personally believe they are though.

9S, on the other hand, I think has a love-hate relationship with 2B, seeing that it's heavily implied that he knew the whole time that her job was to kill him over and over again, wiping his memories of their relationship(s) in the process. In the cutscene where he repeatedly stabs the vision of 2B after his memories of her start to disappear, he's screaming directly at her, saying "They're my memories, do you hear me?!" and crying while he does it, because deep down he knows that she is the one responsible for him not remembering all of the time they've spent together, and he's enraged at her for it. Again, I'm not sure if his feelings for her are romantic, but I think the implication is that they are.

[Tressk]

I'd say yes, it's a romantic relationship. 2B's flight unit message to 9S, the fact that she was the 1 that gave him the nickname "Nines", their interactions in game and in the novels, 9S getting flustered when 2B says his "voice is calming" during her reactivation after the prologue, 2B getting jealous of the E unit during the amnesia side quest (it's jealousy, and nothing more. 2B wouldn't make a comment about the E unit being "'pretty" otherwise), 2B straddling 9S during route A/B at the end is very suggestive and has sexual connotations to it, otherwise she wouldn't need to get on top of him like that. There was no "logical" need for her to get on top of him to choke him out, and 2B only showing her true smile and feelings when it concerns 9S. It's all up to u on how you see their relationship, but there exists more evidence to suggest that their relationship is more akin to a "tragic romance" especially with the novels and other supplementary materials. I'm convinced that 2B and 9S would be dating if they weren't forced into such a sh itty situation. They will most likely be able to finally express themselves freely and progress their relationship after ending E, since they are both free from yorha and the war with the machines.

[Tressk]

Автор сообщения: lessthanoff

Автор сообщения: Neriah

Really?? Geeze. They all have really strange sibling relationships then. I would never get jealous of my bro if he was hitting on other women.

Then again. I guess it's a complicated situation~

I think "complicated" is the best way to describe their relationship. The romance is hinted at, moreso in the stage play and short stories written by Yoko Taro. I think it's safe to say that 2B has strong feelings for 9S, but whether those feelings are romantic, I'm not entirely sure. I personally believe they are though.

9S, on the other hand, I think has a love-hate relationship with 2B, seeing that it's heavily implied that he knew the whole time that her job was to kill him over and over again, wiping his memories of their relationship(s) in the process. In the cutscene where he repeatedly stabs the vision of 2B after his memories of her start to disappear, he's screaming directly at her, saying "They're my memories, do you hear me?!" and crying while he does it, because deep down he knows that she is the one responsible for him not remembering all of the time they've spent together, and he's enraged at her for it. Again, I'm not sure if his feelings for her are romantic, but I think the implication is that they are.

I'd say 9S hates the situation that 2B is forced into, not so much her because 9S had already forgiven 2B and understood that she had no choice. If anything, he hates "2E" which is almost it's own persona of 2B's. 2B is this sweet, and loving girl, while her "2E" side is an emotionless, cold killer. The novels and game almost makes 2E her own character imo.

[lessthanoff]

Автор сообщения: Tressk

Автор сообщения: lessthanoff

I think "complicated" is the best way to describe their relationship. The romance is hinted at, moreso in the stage play and short stories written by Yoko Taro. I think it's safe to say that 2B has strong feelings for 9S, but whether those feelings are romantic, I'm not entirely sure. I personally believe they are though.

9S, on the other hand, I think has a love-hate relationship with 2B, seeing that it's heavily implied that he knew the whole time that her job was to kill him over and over again, wiping his memories of their relationship(s) in the process. In the cutscene where he repeatedly stabs the vision of 2B after his memories of her start to disappear, he's screaming directly at her, saying "They're my memories, do you hear me?!" and crying while he does it, because deep down he knows that she is the one responsible for him not remembering all of the time they've spent together, and he's enraged at her for it. Again, I'm not sure if his feelings for her are romantic, but I think the implication is that they are.

I'd say 9S hates the situation that 2B is forced into, not so much her because 9S had already forgiven 2B and understood that she had no choice. If anything, he hates "2E" which is almost it's own persona of 2B's. 2B is this sweet, and loving girl, while her "2E" side is an emotionless, cold killer. The novels and game almost makes 2E her own character imo.

Hmm. That's an interesting way to see it. Kind of strange to think of "2E" as the personality that 2B takes on to prevent herself from getting close to 9S, despite "2B" being the cover for 2E.

[Tressk]

Автор сообщения: lessthanoff

Автор сообщения: Tressk

I'd say 9S hates the situation that 2B is forced into, not so much her because 9S had already forgiven 2B and understood that she had no choice. If anything, he hates "2E" which is almost it's own persona of 2B's. 2B is this sweet, and loving girl, while her "2E" side is an emotionless, cold killer. The novels and game almost makes 2E her own character imo.

Hmm. That's an interesting way to see it. Kind of strange to think of "2E" as the personality that 2B takes on to prevent herself from getting close to 9S, despite "2B" being the cover for 2E.

2B typically goes from a cold, killer when she's killing 9S, quickly back her to loving, endearing self. She's 2E when she is killing 9S, but she goes back to being 2B when she's crying and cradling his lifeless body, even though she's the one that killed him. In that sense, 2E is almost her own character I feel, or at the very least, 2E is 2B's "darker" personality that she would like to be able to keep in check.

[Aemony]

”It’s complicated” describes their relationship perfectly.

[Neriah]

I feel like much of my opinion about 2B and 9S is influenced by my western bias towards romantic relationships in all fairness. It's more comforting to have a husband looking out for me when I experience trauma than having a very close sibling near. I tend to map those feelings onto the world of Nier Automata because there is so much tragedy in the story. Thankfully, it was written with enough hints at both that you can joy thinking one way or the other with plenty of supporting material.

I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions though and I think they all carry a lot of weight. I still think that there is a good argument for 9S and 2B being in a sibling relationship because most of the relationships in the story seem like sibling ones. Of course, there are tons of sexual undertones to the game too which kind of makes me think that you couldn't put it past Yoko Taro to also throw in the "Incest is WINCEST~" element. You could totally skip past arguing one or the other and say, HEY IT'S BOTH.

[Tressk]

Автор сообщения: Neriah

I feel like much of my opinion about 2B and 9S is influenced by my western bias towards romantic relationships in all fairness. It's more comforting to have a husband looking out for me when I experience trauma than having a very close sibling near. I tend to map those feelings onto the world of Nier Automata because there is so much tragedy in the story. Thankfully, it was written with enough hints at both that you can joy thinking one way or the other with plenty of supporting material.

I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions though and I think they all carry a lot of weight. I still think that there is a good argument for 9S and 2B being in a sibling relationship because most of the relationships in the story seem like sibling ones. Of course, there are tons of sexual undertones to the game too which kind of makes me think that you couldn't put it past Yoko Taro to also throw in the "Incest is WINCEST~" element. You could totally skip past arguing one or the other and say, HEY IT'S BOTH.

"To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." - Excerpt from concert script 4 (9S's feelings about 2B)

How you interpret their relationship is up to you, but its very clear that they love each other and care for each other so much that not even the term "lover" adequately describes their love for each other. I personally see them more as a tragic romantic couple (akin to Romeo and Juliet) but at the end of the day, these two characters cant imagine living in the world without each other.

It is imporant to note however when analysing their relationship, the androids have no understanding of the concept of "love" that is expressed by humans so effectively. To humans observing 2B and 9S from an outside perspective might see them as a "romantic couple" but to 2B and 9S, all the know is that they both are extremely happy when they are together, and enjoy the time that they spent together. They don't quite understand why they have these feelings that they (as androids) should have no capacity for, but nonetheless enjoy having those feelings and look forward to future times when they can spend more time together.

[Neriah]

Автор сообщения: Tressk

"To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." - Excerpt from concert script 4 (9S's feelings about 2B)

How you interpret their relationship is up to you, but its very clear that they love each other and care for each other so much that not even the term "lover" adequately describes their love for each other. I personally see them more as a tragic romantic couple (akin to Romeo and Juliet) but at the end of the day, these two characters cant imagine living in the world without each other.

It is imporant to note however when analysing their relationship, the androids have no understanding of the concept of "love" that is expressed by humans so effectively. To humans observing 2B and 9S from an outside perspective might see them as a "romantic couple" but to 2B and 9S, all the know is that they both are extremely happy when they are together, and enjoy the time that they spent together. They don't quite understand why they have these feelings that they (as androids) should have no capacity for, but nonetheless enjoy having those feelings and look forward to future times when they can spend more time together.

Actually, that's probably the best point out there concerning their relationship. They are androids that probably haven't really worked out what a romantic relationship would look like in their own social system. I can't really add anything to that. You wrote it very well.

This is something slightly disconnected but-
I just thought of something, which I'm sure other people have probably brought up before but I feel like it's worth mentioning. Jackass points out that the excitement machines feel is something kind of akin to what humans called "love" when they fight and kill things. Assuming that androids feel the same way. (Black boxes are made from machine cores.) Isn't it a humongous expression of love that 2B kills 9S over and over? Maybe it's not as complicated as people say.

I wonder about the sentiment "To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." What is unreasonable about siblings and what about being lovers makes you distant?

[Aemony]

Автор сообщения: Neriah

I just thought of something, which I'm sure other people have probably brought up before but I feel like it's worth mentioning. Jackass points out that the excitement machines feel is something kind of akin to what humans called "love" when they fight and kill things. Assuming that androids feel the same way. (Black boxes are made from machine cores.) Isn't it a humongous expression of love that 2B kills 9S over and over? Maybe it's not as complicated as people say.

I don't think so. Jackass' quote was about *fighting* and the *act of fighting*. 2B's termination of 9S seem too clinically performed to trigger that feeling. They don't fight at all. 2B terminates him and that's the end of the story, basically.

Автор сообщения: Neriah

I wonder about the sentiment "To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." What is unreasonable about siblings and what about being lovers makes you distant?

They're soulmates. Or soulbound or whatever you want to call it. That is basically the best term to describe their relationship. Their relationship is too complex to be described using regular terms such as family and lovers.

[Tressk]

Автор сообщения: Neriah

Автор сообщения: Tressk

"To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." - Excerpt from concert script 4 (9S's feelings about 2B)

How you interpret their relationship is up to you, but its very clear that they love each other and care for each other so much that not even the term "lover" adequately describes their love for each other. I personally see them more as a tragic romantic couple (akin to Romeo and Juliet) but at the end of the day, these two characters cant imagine living in the world without each other.

It is imporant to note however when analysing their relationship, the androids have no understanding of the concept of "love" that is expressed by humans so effectively. To humans observing 2B and 9S from an outside perspective might see them as a "romantic couple" but to 2B and 9S, all the know is that they both are extremely happy when they are together, and enjoy the time that they spent together. They don't quite understand why they have these feelings that they (as androids) should have no capacity for, but nonetheless enjoy having those feelings and look forward to future times when they can spend more time together.

I wonder about the sentiment "To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." What is unreasonable about siblings and what about being lovers makes you distant?

It just means that 2B and 9S love each other so much that regular relationship defining terms such as "family" and "lover" doesn't do their relationship and love for each other justice. Those terms don't explain well enough how much they love and care for each other. As Aemony stated, they are soulmates. They can't live without each other.