Was 2B and 9S's Relationship Romantic?

[Neriah]

I wonder how much of my interpretation of their relationship just comes from my heteronormative cultural conditioning.

When I went through the first playthrough I had no doubt in my head that 9S must've had romantic feelings for 2B. He invites her out on a pretty standard japanese style date when they're talking in the shopping center and there is a moment in the Amnesia subquest where 2B become pissy and jealous because she thinks 9S is helping the E-type because she is pretty.

I felt like all of these little hints meant, yeah, this game wants you to think of 2B and 9S as a couple. On the other hand, all of the relationships depicted in the game show characters behaving kind of like life partners with incredibly intimate ties to each other. Adam and Eve are together constantly, looking after each other and so are Popola and Devola.

Somebody mentioned that you can't call a romantic relationship that until it's literally spelled out for you.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Are 9S and 2B a canon couple?

[mnb]

Originally posted by Neriah:

Originally posted by Tressk:

"To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." - Excerpt from concert script 4 (9S's feelings about 2B)

How you interpret their relationship is up to you, but its very clear that they love each other and care for each other so much that not even the term "lover" adequately describes their love for each other. I personally see them more as a tragic romantic couple (akin to Romeo and Juliet) but at the end of the day, these two characters cant imagine living in the world without each other.

It is imporant to note however when analysing their relationship, the androids have no understanding of the concept of "love" that is expressed by humans so effectively. To humans observing 2B and 9S from an outside perspective might see them as a "romantic couple" but to 2B and 9S, all the know is that they both are extremely happy when they are together, and enjoy the time that they spent together. They don't quite understand why they have these feelings that they (as androids) should have no capacity for, but nonetheless enjoy having those feelings and look forward to future times when they can spend more time together.

Actually, that's probably the best point out there concerning their relationship. They are androids that probably haven't really worked out what a romantic relationship would look like in their own social system. I can't really add anything to that. You wrote it very well.

This is something slightly disconnected but-
I just thought of something, which I'm sure other people have probably brought up before but I feel like it's worth mentioning. Jackass points out that the excitement machines feel is something kind of akin to what humans called "love" when they fight and kill things. Assuming that androids feel the same way. (Black boxes are made from machine cores.) Isn't it a humongous expression of love that 2B kills 9S over and over? Maybe it's not as complicated as people say.

I wonder about the sentiment "To him, calling her family felt too unreasonable, but calling her a lover felt too distant." What is unreasonable about siblings and what about being lovers makes you distant?

That quote basically means "more than just a family, closer than lovers".

[HAUSER]

Originally posted by Neriah:

I wonder how much of my interpretation of their relationship just comes from my heteronormative cultural conditioning.

When I went through the first playthrough I had no doubt in my head that 9S must've had romantic feelings for 2B. He invites her out on a pretty standard japanese style date when they're talking in the shopping center and there is a moment in the Amnesia subquest where 2B become pissy and jealous because she thinks 9S is helping the E-type because she is pretty.

I felt like all of these little hints meant, yeah, this game wants you to think of 2B and 9S as a couple. On the other hand, all of the relationships depicted in the game show characters behaving kind of like life partners with incredibly intimate ties to each other. Adam and Eve are together constantly, looking after each other and so are Popola and Devola.

Somebody mentioned that you can't call a romantic relationship that until it's literally spelled out for you.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Are 9S and 2B a canon couple?

2B is in love with 9S and suffers 'cause she knows her mission is to kill him every time, like Itchy and Scratchy
9S is good to 2B but just because he is a sofisticated and intelligent model... in his head he hates 2B cause some part of him knows what's she's all about.

[Tressk]

Originally posted by HAUSER:

Originally posted by Neriah:

I wonder how much of my interpretation of their relationship just comes from my heteronormative cultural conditioning.

When I went through the first playthrough I had no doubt in my head that 9S must've had romantic feelings for 2B. He invites her out on a pretty standard japanese style date when they're talking in the shopping center and there is a moment in the Amnesia subquest where 2B become pissy and jealous because she thinks 9S is helping the E-type because she is pretty.

I felt like all of these little hints meant, yeah, this game wants you to think of 2B and 9S as a couple. On the other hand, all of the relationships depicted in the game show characters behaving kind of like life partners with incredibly intimate ties to each other. Adam and Eve are together constantly, looking after each other and so are Popola and Devola.

Somebody mentioned that you can't call a romantic relationship that until it's literally spelled out for you.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Are 9S and 2B a canon couple?

2B is in love with 9S and suffers 'cause she knows her mission is to kill him every time, like Itchy and Scratchy
9S is good to 2B but just because he is a sofisticated and intelligent model... in his head he hates 2B cause some part of him knows what's she's all about.

9S already forgave 2B. He doesn't hate 2B at all. In fact, in the novels he kills himself so as to spare her the pain of having to do it again.

[mnb]

Originally posted by HAUSER:

Originally posted by Neriah:

I wonder how much of my interpretation of their relationship just comes from my heteronormative cultural conditioning.

When I went through the first playthrough I had no doubt in my head that 9S must've had romantic feelings for 2B. He invites her out on a pretty standard japanese style date when they're talking in the shopping center and there is a moment in the Amnesia subquest where 2B become pissy and jealous because she thinks 9S is helping the E-type because she is pretty.

I felt like all of these little hints meant, yeah, this game wants you to think of 2B and 9S as a couple. On the other hand, all of the relationships depicted in the game show characters behaving kind of like life partners with incredibly intimate ties to each other. Adam and Eve are together constantly, looking after each other and so are Popola and Devola.

Somebody mentioned that you can't call a romantic relationship that until it's literally spelled out for you.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Are 9S and 2B a canon couple?

2B is in love with 9S and suffers 'cause she knows her mission is to kill him every time, like Itchy and Scratchy
9S is good to 2B but just because he is a sofisticated and intelligent model... in his head he hates 2B cause some part of him knows what's she's all about.

Nope. First thing - 9S doesn't remember that 2B kills him every timr he is resetted - he only deduces that along the way. Second, as Tressk says, he forgives her every single time.

[evil_apai]

Like many have said... 2B is there to make sure 9S are not crossing his boundary as a Scanner. She execute 9S many times before this. And have his memories erased to protect the big secret 9S have uncovered. How is it feel to kill your own cheerful partner? Disheartening I guest.

The current 9S knew this, he have retain his memories from his previous self. He just act not knowing. He know 2B's dilemma. I believe that's not an intimate feeling he have toward 2B.

[mnb]

Originally posted by evil_apai:

Like many have said... 2B is there to make sure 9S are not crossing his boundary as a Scanner. She execute 9S many times before this. And have his memories erased to protect the big secret 9S have uncovered. How is it feel to kill your own cheerful partner? Disheartening I guest.

The current 9S knew this, he have retain his memories from his previous self. He just act not knowing. He know 2B's dilemma. I believe that's not an intimate feeling he have toward 2B.

He didn't. 9S doesn't retain memories from his previous selves (Taro even confirmed this during an interview - translated bits here, full video here). And he seriously was not harbouring any hate towards 2B when he realized this.

[evil_apai]

Originally posted by mnb:

Originally posted by evil_apai:

Like many have said... 2B is there to make sure 9S are not crossing his boundary as a Scanner. She execute 9S many times before this. And have his memories erased to protect the big secret 9S have uncovered. How is it feel to kill your own cheerful partner? Disheartening I guest.

The current 9S knew this, he have retain his memories from his previous self. He just act not knowing. He know 2B's dilemma. I believe that's not an intimate feeling he have toward 2B.

He didn't. 9S doesn't retain memories from his previous selves (Taro even confirmed this during an interview - translated bits here, full video here). And he seriously was not harbouring any hate towards 2B when he realized this.

Thanks for that... It killed my theory that 9S hacking system get messed up during his many battle with A2 and have A2 counter hacking him. And he gain an ability to save his memories somewhere when he about to get erased (like in Ending A n B, when 9S manage to save himself by transferring his consciousness the near by machine). Also the route B give a hint that 9S actually remember what happen during the intro where he n 2B use the Black Box againts the Goliath. He just pretend he didn't remember when 2B thanks him for transferring her data to the bunker.

[mnb]

Originally posted by evil_apai:

Also the route B give a hint that 9S actually remember what happen during the intro where he n 2B use the Black Box againts the Goliath. He just pretend he didn't remember when 2B thanks him for transferring her data to the bunker.

He doesn't, but you can believe what you want, I guess.

[Aemony]

Wasn't there hints during 9S' hacking into the Bunker that *some* memories might remain across the resets? That's the feeling I got from it. Not a lot, but a few minor things here and there which when compared to what he "remembers" hints that some kind of reset occurs for him every now and then.

I thought that was used as the basis of explaining why he is able to sometimes successfully deduce 2B's real mission.

[Exarch_Alpha]

One thing people keep forgetting... the interaction between 9S and 2B in this cycle is TOTALLY different from all the other cycles... Because the cycle itself IS different. Yorha blowing up, the first humanoid machine etc etc

so it´s POSSIBLE that he COULD be in love with her because he lived longer than ever before.

[Aemony]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

One thing people keep forgetting... the interaction between 9S and 2B in this cycle is TOTALLY different from all the other cycles... Because the cycle itself IS different. Yorha blowing up, the first humanoid machine etc etc

so it´s POSSIBLE that he COULD be in love with her because he lived longer than ever before.

What cycle are you referring to? YoRHa, 2B, 9S, and A2 all exists only within a single "cycle", it being the "first one". The "cycle of YoRHa" haven't actually repeated itself.

Yes, there were previous wars against the Machines, but they were fought by regular Androids.

[mnb]

Originally posted by Aemony:

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

One thing people keep forgetting... the interaction between 9S and 2B in this cycle is TOTALLY different from all the other cycles... Because the cycle itself IS different. Yorha blowing up, the first humanoid machine etc etc

so it´s POSSIBLE that he COULD be in love with her because he lived longer than ever before.

What cycle are you referring to? YoRHa, 2B, 9S, and A2 all exists only within a single "cycle", it being the "first one". The "cycle of YoRHa" haven't actually repeated itself.

Yes, there were previous wars against the Machines, but they were fought by regular Androids.

this

[Exarch_Alpha]

BS. 2B was killing 9s for years and you know that, specially if you read the novellas.

And the cycle that happens in the game is VASTLY different. FFS dude, their cycle had Adam for example THAT NEVER HAPPENED, get a clue.

[Tressk]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

BS. 2B was killing 9s for years and you know that, specially if you read the novellas.

And the cycle that happens in the game is VASTLY different. FFS dude, their cycle had Adam for example THAT NEVER HAPPENED, get a clue.

The 9S, 2B, and A2 models, as well as yorha, is a one cycle deal. 2B being forced to kill 9S is its own twisted cycle to be sure, but every iteration of 9S is the same model, with the only differences between each one being the memories and times that they spent with 2B. They are in the 14th machine war with the other wars being between androids vs machines as opposed to androids + yorha androids vs machines (which is what it is now). Please don't try to be rude and tell others to get a clue when you clearly don't understand the story yourself.

[Juuken]

Yes, it was a romantic relationship, but they never had time to admit it to each other. Adam even stated that 9S wishes to ♥♥♥♥ (gosh, censorship ... "make love to", ok?) 2B, when he hacked into the boy.