[Open Discussion] The Android Anatomy in NieR:Automata

[af]

For the more sciencey people, the anatomy of an android in NieR:Automata has likely been a major mystery. The story indicates they are capable of many human like features such as pain perception, drinking or eating (possibly even digestion of some sort), and even showing emotion. This thread is an open discussion for exploring the anatomy of the android body.

[For people who want more info about the three features provided above]
Pain - this is a given. However, whether they feel pain or simply are told by their sensors that there is damage to their anatomy, this is a different topic.
Drinking and eating - Operator 6O stated she “asked someone out for lunch”...whatever “lunch” is for an android. Additionally, (minor spoiler, if it even is a spoiler), Devola is an alcoholic.
Emotion - this is also a given. However, how emotions are perceived by the characters specifically in comparison to human minds, similar to pain perception, deals with altered states of consciousness - a whole new topic.

Android by definition is a humanoid machine (tech/robotics/engineering specialists, help me out here if there are other details we can add). It seems to be the androids in the story are similar to the robots seen in classic films such as the Terminator series, just that in NieR, androids are much more advanced. The interpretation I offer specifically is about their cognitive ability and mental capacity. It seems to be that the androids in NieR:Automata are a result of a modern day project in the neuroscience field called The Connectome Project.

For those who have never heard of this project before, it is a neurological project currently in development that is attempting to map the entire human brain on a computer. The question then arises, if the neural pathways and features of the human brain are copied onto a computer in the form of digital data, does the computer become a human? It further extends into other debates such as whether consciousness or the soul are part of the brain or if they even exist at all.

In the world of Nier:Automata, it seems to be that projects such as The Connectome Project succeeded and served as the precursor to Project YoRHa. By copying the ability of the human brain into the form of digital data, computers could then, at the very least, act like people. To make androids, the brain data translated into digital data could have been placed into humanoid machines. Pain perception could also be simulated in a mechanical body, even if pain perception may have differed to how humans perceived it. Emotions could be displayed through the reaction the data is programmed to evoke when a certain stimulus is perceived by the programming in the android body.

By converting brain features into digital data, special ideas such as “the soul” ultimately seem to be neurons or matter in a special form to provide us with what is called self awareness or consciousness. Through the above interpretation, NieR:Automata’s world seems to be nihilistic to a whole new level. I am not sure how much Yoko Taro thought about the science behind the android anatomy. However, after thinking further about the way androids are built, it was fascinating and I kept prying further at what possibilities there were.

It would be extremely helpful if there were an official source from the publishers of the story to expand on this part of the lore. So far, there seems to be no written rule on how the android body functions. If someone does have any useful, official info, please comment below. Until then, this topic is open to discussion. Make sure however to backup ideas with at least some scientific basis. For info containing spoilers, please use the blackout formatting function. What do you think the android anatomy is like? What are some other major questions you had about the way the androids function?

Updates on community's analysis of the android anatomy

I have kept track and updated everything we have discussed as a community so far on the android anatomy. So far we have:

• The brain: Other than my original post, this part hasn't been touched on much, yet.
  
• Digestive system: Maybe?
  
  Clues
  • Devola is an alcoholic
    
  • Eating mackerel
    
  • Operator 6O inviting a coworker for "lunch"
• Circulatory system: Maybe? Possibly some form of hydraulic fluid.
  
  • Blood
• Reproductive system: [Confirmed by Yoko Taro] Androids can have genitalia if they decide to have such modifications. However, the genitalia will not be organic. One member has suggested the idea that maybe hacking is involved with the reproduction process (hack the egg cell like portion of a female genitalia in a female android).
  
• Speech Input and Output: Radio/transmission, "gibberish" language seen in the game, possibly even the use of digital telepathy.
  
• High heels: Not for practical combat use, but rather for appeal. Yoko Taro explained in an interview that he simply went wild with creativity. He said, "human civilizations thousands of years ago couldn't imagine what our civilization would be like, so I decided there would be no constraints to what 2B would be wearing." Not scientific, but an explanation we can remember.
  
• Blindfold - most of us already know what it is and that it isn't a "blindfold" but that it is instead a standard issue military visor.

[Edremis]

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem with japanese games is that their lore is so full of fanservice that you can't reach a proper conclusion without having to make some crazy assumptions.

Were do you see those crazy assumptions?

It all comes from androids wanting to be the more human as possible in every aspect. Clothes, organs, feelings...

The only thing that I could accept as fanservice in this game are the high heels.

[Lorenzzi]

Edremis eredeti hozzászólása:

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem with japanese games is that their lore is so full of fanservice that you can't reach a proper conclusion without having to make some crazy assumptions.

The only thing that I could accept as fan service in this game are the high heels.

What about the Gothic Lolita and the revealing dress? You can see her body easily anywhere in the game. Just like bayonetta. That's kind of necessary nudity that doesn't affect the game play at all. Hentai at its purest definition: Pervert, lol. I was playing NieR with my GF, and she was annoyed with B2's skirt when you go up a stair.

By the way, I'm not hating at all. I love the game. I just look at it as a fan of Star Trek would look at a star wars movies. I wouldn't call it a scientific fiction game but a fantasy game.

I gave a Ps4 copy to my GF and I play it at her home. I will buy a copy for my steam collection when it goes on a sale or something.

[Prolixus]

Minneyar eredeti hozzászólása:

Spoilers for the original NieR / Project Gestalt: Androids were originally designed to oversee the Gestalt project and manage communities of Replicants; they look and act human and communicate via speech so that they would blend in perfectly with the human clones.
And spoilers for Automata: Since the machines didn't even attack until after humanity was completely extinct, there is no reason why the androids who fought back would be any different. They weren't originally designed for combat.

This "gotta blend in" intention doesn't mean they are not able to communicate by radio without using their voice. Or rather, this doesn't mean this form of communication wouldn't be a more faster and effective way of talking to each other. I suggest you take a look at Old Man's War by John Scalzi, and it will be obvious how much using your voice is obsolete if you get the ability to directly transform your thoughts into digital data and share that data much faster and much further via radio for instance. So yes, I also think it's very logical to assume that androids and especially battle models would use the most effective way of communication possible, and that is definitely not speaking by your own voice.

Your point about them having been designed way before the game starts isn't very relevant. 2B, 9S, A2 etc are newly designed models, they weren't designed by humans like Devola and Popola, they were designed by androids, probably androids who were also designed by older androids. And improvements were made along the line, so even if D&P weren't designed to use direct digital communication, the newer androids must have.

[Yuuki]

Prolixus eredeti hozzászólása:

Minneyar eredeti hozzászólása:

Spoilers for the original NieR / Project Gestalt: Androids were originally designed to oversee the Gestalt project and manage communities of Replicants; they look and act human and communicate via speech so that they would blend in perfectly with the human clones.
And spoilers for Automata: Since the machines didn't even attack until after humanity was completely extinct, there is no reason why the androids who fought back would be any different. They weren't originally designed for combat.

This "gotta blend in" intention doesn't mean they are not able to communicate by radio without using their voice. Or rather, this doesn't mean this form of communication wouldn't be a more faster and effective way of talking to each other. I suggest you take a look at Old Man's War by John Scalzi, and it will be obvious how much using your voice is obsolete if you get the ability to directly transform your thoughts into digital data and share that data much faster and much further via radio for instance. So yes, I also think it's very logical to assume that androids and especially battle models would use the most effective way of communication possible, and that is definitely not speaking by your own voice.

Your point about them having been designed way before the game starts isn't very relevant. 2B, 9S, A2 etc are newly designed models, they weren't designed by humans like Devola and Popola, they were designed by androids, probably androids who were also designed by older androids. And improvements were made along the line, so even if D&P weren't designed to use direct digital communication, the newer androids must have.

its faster yes but is it safer? No, especilly since hacking is very advanched. You could have fake a transmitted messages even a voice one. A message from Person to person directly not so much. Also what if the connection is jammed? How to coordinate then if you cant speak?

[Lorenzzi]

Prolixus eredeti hozzászólása:

Minneyar eredeti hozzászólása:

Spoilers for the original NieR / Project Gestalt: Androids were originally designed to oversee the Gestalt project and manage communities of Replicants; they look and act human and communicate via speech so that they would blend in perfectly with the human clones.
And spoilers for Automata: Since the machines didn't even attack until after humanity was completely extinct, there is no reason why the androids who fought back would be any different. They weren't originally designed for combat.

This "gotta blend in" intention doesn't mean they are not able to communicate by radio without using their voice. Or rather, this doesn't mean this form of communication wouldn't be a more faster and effective way of talking to each other. I suggest you take a look at Old Man's War by John Scalzi, and it will be obvious how much using your voice is obsolete if you get the ability to directly transform your thoughts into digital data and share that data much faster and much further via radio for instance. So yes, I also think it's very logical to assume that androids and especially battle models would use the most effective way of communication possible, and that is definitely not speaking by your own voice.

Your point about them having been designed way before the game starts isn't very relevant. 2B, 9S, A2 etc are newly designed models, they weren't designed by humans like Devola and Popola, they were designed by androids, probably androids who were also designed by older androids. And improvements were made along the line, so even if D&P weren't designed to use direct digital communication, the newer androids must have.

Thats the point. Exactly what I meant... I totally agree with you and there are other premises that would make these androids absurd. I just watched the live action ghost in the shell, and I found awesome how major would take her clothes to go into action as a stealth aggressor. IMO, she should even remove her hair, that would make her way more efficient in combat.

But, the point is perhaps we are looking too deeply into the game. Being too critic on a fantasy game. NieR is fun, lets face it. Perhaps we should take it easily. The point of the game is not creating a very accurate science fiction dystopia but a science fiction universe full of mysteries just like the souls universe did. (which is not the best formula, I prefer a full history with beginning, middle and end without "gaps" but that is a different discussion)

[Lorenzzi]

its faster yes but is it safer? No, especilly since hacking is very advanched. You could have fake a transmitted messages even a voice one. A message from Person to person directly not so much. Also what if the connection is jammed? How to coordinate then if you cant speak?

It would make sense if we had a perfectly silence battlefield. Things are exploding, clashing and so on. We must agree that you can easily intercept a voice communication by clapping.... intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise....

[Prolixus]

Edremis eredeti hozzászólása:

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem with japanese games is that their lore is so full of fanservice that you can't reach a proper conclusion without having to make some crazy assumptions.

Were do you see those crazy assumptions?

It all comes from androids wanting to be the more human as possible in every aspect. Clothes, organs, feelings...

The only thing that I could accept as fanservice in this game are the high heels.

No, I think you are being inconsistent. High heels are also part of our modern society and sexual appeal. If their clothes and appearance are part of their desire for looking like humans, then they are also wearing heels because of that.

Btw, YoRHa models were designed to fight against the machinces and defend humanity. As far as we know, wanting to design human(ish) androids is neither part of YoRHa's creed, nor part of Project YoRHa's offical mission. You can think of this as some sort of adverse effect. Lolita clothes, boobs, high heels, or even human-like bodies seem to be very ineffective or pointless if you keep YoRHa's goals in mind. So assuming this is part of the fan service would make more sense, than assuming they were designed to look like this because of Project YoRHa thought they were going to be good at killing machines.

[Prolixus]

Yuuki eredeti hozzászólása:

Prolixus eredeti hozzászólása:

This "gotta blend in" intention doesn't mean they are not able to communicate by radio without using their voice. Or rather, this doesn't mean this form of communication wouldn't be a more faster and effective way of talking to each other. I suggest you take a look at Old Man's War by John Scalzi, and it will be obvious how much using your voice is obsolete if you get the ability to directly transform your thoughts into digital data and share that data much faster and much further via radio for instance. So yes, I also think it's very logical to assume that androids and especially battle models would use the most effective way of communication possible, and that is definitely not speaking by your own voice.

Your point about them having been designed way before the game starts isn't very relevant. 2B, 9S, A2 etc are newly designed models, they weren't designed by humans like Devola and Popola, they were designed by androids, probably androids who were also designed by older androids. And improvements were made along the line, so even if D&P weren't designed to use direct digital communication, the newer androids must have.

its faster yes but is it safer? No, especilly since hacking is very advanched. You could have fake a transmitted messages even a voice one. A message from Person to person directly not so much. Also what if the connection is jammed? How to coordinate then if you cant speak?

Voice could also be "jammed" by noise, as it was pointed out. Or you can't use it underwater or in space, whereas you can use radio. And voice doesn't contain any kind of decryption (considering you understand the language, but the machines used the same language as the anrdoids, so the definitely understood it, whatever the language was). So yes, it would be safer. All of the problems you can come up with concerning direct digital communication, there is an analog to that at voice. But voice has a very limited reach, and pretty slow compared to radio. Of course nothing is perfect, and any kind of system can have flaws, but, generally speaking, voice has more than direct digital communication. Sure, there could be some specific situations when using voice would be more advantegous, that's why I think having both ways of commincation and using direct digital as primary would make the most sense.

[Lorenzzi]

Another thing... check the NieR:Automata subreddit... its a NSFW fanfic sub. It got me really scared... I really enjoyed the game, and the discussions there are more like: "look at b2's butt" "here are 2 characters dating", "X character using x Clothes" and so on.

[Prolixus]

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

Thats the point. Exactly what I meant... I totally agree with you and there are other premises that would make these androids absurd. I just watched the live action ghost in the shell, and I found awesome how major would take her clothes to go into action as a stealth aggressor. IMO, she should even remove her hair, that would make her way more efficient in combat.

But, the point is perhaps we are looking too deeply into the game. Being too critic on a fantasy game. NieR is fun, lets face it. Perhaps we should take it easily. The point of the game is not creating a very accurate science fiction dystopia but a science fiction universe full of mysteries just like the souls universe did. (which is not the best formula, I prefer a full history with beginning, middle and end without "gaps" but that is a different discussion)

Well, here is the thing. I think the problem here is not with pointing out some obvious flaws/inconsistencies/pointless or meaningless things in an otherwise remarkable game. The problem is that some fans can't even accept legit criticism (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread, please don't misunderstand me).

What's stupid is stupid, it can't be helped and it's definitely worth talking about. But talking about flaws doesn't neccesarily mean that we don't adore the game. NieR: Automata isn't a prefect product, and it definitely has some stupid gaps in the lore that you can only fill in with far-fetched or poorly established theories.

I do think the mentioned things are just part of the fan service. But the question is, acknowledging that is bad? Do I like the game less due to this? Probably not. I definitely prefer to look at sexy androids with 'doesn't make much sense' lolita clothes and blood/high heels/tears/boobs/whatever, than a really meant for battle war-machine. And I also prefer listening to their voice, which can convey emotions, rather than merely reading some text-converted messages from direct digital communication (too bad most of the dialogue weren't voiced in the game...)

So yeah, I love NieR: Automata, it does have some things that don't stand to reason, but then again, this doesn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Minneyar]

Prolixus eredeti hozzászólása:

Your point about them having been designed way before the game starts isn't very relevant.

You appear to be under a misconception; I'm not trying to have a debate with you, that's simply the in-universe reason for why androids are the way they are.

If you're going to try to be purely pragmatic, there's no reason for combat machines to be humanoid at all. The human form is horrible inefficient for that. It's top-heavy, there's not a lot of redundancy, it's not efficient for moving at high speeds, and needing to use hands to manipulate weapons is just silly. Having personalities at all is pointless.

So let's take a few steps back and realize that this isn't a documentary or hard sci-fi; it's a story about relationships, life, and existentialism; and having characters who look and act human and have appealing aesthetics makes them more sympathetic and makes for a more entertaining story.

[Yuuki]

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

its faster yes but is it safer? No, especilly since hacking is very advanched. You could have fake a transmitted messages even a voice one. A message from Person to person directly not so much. Also what if the connection is jammed? How to coordinate then if you cant speak?

It would make sense if we had a perfectly silence battlefield. Things are exploding, clashing and so on. We must agree that you can easily intercept a voice communication by clapping.... intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise....

"intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise...." yet they hack any machine/device in nano seconds in the game ;)

[Tressk]

Yuuki eredeti hozzászólása:

The Sun Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

It would make sense if we had a perfectly silence battlefield. Things are exploding, clashing and so on. We must agree that you can easily intercept a voice communication by clapping.... intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise....

"intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise...." yet they hack any machine/device in nano seconds in the game ;)

can u guys take this somewhere else? we're trying to talk about 2b p uss and 9s d icks

[Yuuki]

Tressk eredeti hozzászólása:

Yuuki eredeti hozzászólása:

"intercepting decrypting messages during a combat would be way more difficult than just... hitting your boots on the floor and making noise...." yet they hack any machine/device in nano seconds in the game ;)

can u guys take this somewhere else? we're trying to talk about 2b p uss and 9s d icks

maybe mating would involve hacking too? maybe the male has to overcome the firewall of the female egg cell. While the female can (but not must) defend with a counter hack

[Prolixus]

Minneyar eredeti hozzászólása:

You appear to be under a misconception; I'm not trying to have a debate with you, that's simply the in-universe reason for why androids are the way they are.

No. That's the in-universe reason for why Devola&Popola are the way they are (but as I said, you can't even exclude of them being able to communicate without speech, either). This has nothing to do with 2B and the other YoRHa models, since they were not designed and built by the humans.

Minneyar eredeti hozzászólása:

If you're going to try to be purely pragmatic, there's no reason for combat machines to be humanoid at all. The human form is horrible inefficient for that. It's top-heavy, there's not a lot of redundancy, it's not efficient for moving at high speeds, and needing to use hands to manipulate weapons is just silly. Having personalities at all is pointless.

Well yeah, this is the exact same point that I and Mr. Sun Bro made. Their design is so blatanly counterproductive, that it can't be explained reasonably by anything in-lore. The Occam's razor explanation is that it's just fan service, plain and simple. But, as I said before, there is nothing wrong with that. I myself prefer them being human-like creatures, even if it doesn't make any sense.