Poor enemy design, modelling and animation

[FuzzyJuzzy]

Firstly, let me lay on the praise. This is a fantastic shooter and an awesome throwback to the good old 90s. The guns sound fantastic and the feel of the movement is spot on. Level design has been decent so far and seems to be improving as I progress so no real complaints there. A bit more complexity, elevation and circular design would make it feel even more old school, but what's there works well with the faster pace of gameplay.

The negative that really sticks out to me however is the lacklustre enemy modelling and animation. As a result, all the enemies lack character and are unmemorable. The scarecrows and witches are the worst offenders in my opinion. What uninspired design! Their silhouettes are very similar and they both resemble boring stick figures. Not only does their thin form contradict the high amount of health they have and their low agility, they are animated in a very rudimentary manner which makes them even more dull. Animation should express the character of an enemy and there is almost none of this in DUSK.

On the topic of enemies, I also think there is not enough speed difference between enemies, which makes for less dynamic gameplay. For example there is not a single enemy that feels like they rush at you with speed.

Anyway, I still have high hopes for this game and I've had a lot of fun so far. Hopefully the devs are still willing and able to tweak the enemies in the game before final release. Their poor quality really sticks out in an otherwise great game.

[PorcusGrunzus]

Have to agree partly. Only with the animation and speed part. At least those deers could be a bit faster. Would make sense for them.

But keep in mind that its supposed to be oldschool looking. I dont think enemies from Quake or Unreal looked better or had better animations. Modelling and design is perfect in my eye.

[Florence]

Out of curiosity, did you try playing on the second-hardest difficulty? Chainsawers run at triple speed there, it makes them a lot more dangerous.

I have to disagree about the animations; Dusk is built as a period piece that emulates the visual aesthetic of '90s shooters like Quake. Quake's animations were likewise "rudimentary" and choppy, and having very expressive animations would take away some of the authenticity from Dusk's visuals in the same way that high-res textures or high-poly geometry would.

I understand your point about scarecrows/witches, but that's more of a personal peeve than an actual issue, IMO; similar problems manifested themselves in classic games like Doom, even. Why does a big beefy demon have less health than a brittle skeleton? Why does the Baron of Hell have double the health of a Hell Knight when the only difference between the two is skintone? For gameplay purposes, it just ends up working better that way.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I am aware that Quake and other classic shooters from that era didn't have skeletal animation or anything fancy, but you have to admit that the enemies in those games were iconic, unique, sublimely grotesque and most importantly, utterly distinct. Have a look at the Fiend, Ogre, Scrag, Shambler etc. from Quake 1. Each enemy was totally unique in look, character, silhouette and behaviour. The way the Ogre would shoot volleys of bouncing grenades at you while standing still, or sometimes be knocked back on it's arse when shot at; the way the Fiend would relentlessly pounce at the you; the way the Shambler had a wind up animation to warn you it was about to blast you with eldritch lightning...

It just feels like the devs simply paid homage to the superficial feel of those games without truly understanding what made those games classics, and that's why the enemies (and level design) are lacking in comparison.

While it's easy to sit on my high horse and compare DUST to the defining classics of the genre, I feel I need to call out these issues because of how blatant they are. I hope the devs can take this feedback and improve the enemies, or at least make sure the enemies in other episodes are more compelling.

[Damien Azreal]

Quake's animations may look crude when compared to more modern titles, but, they are still very well done.
And this is one thing I do feel Dusk could stand to improve on. Look back at some of Quake's enemies. The Orge, the Knight.... watch how they move, attack... and die.
The way the Orge swings his chainsaw, how the zombies arms flex and swing when they throw their dead flesh at you.

There's still that classic id touch to the animation.
It's not so much a negative, as a slight knock against Dusk. The enemies could stand to take on a bit more animation, to add to their character.

Remember that with Quake, and by extension titles like Hexen 2 and others, the developers tried to do as much as they possibly could with the tech they had at the time.
Now, New Blood is trying to replicate this with more moden tech. Tech that allows for far more detailed offerings.
But, in an attempt to make it look and feel older, I think maybe they went just a bit too far in the other direction. Keeping the enemy animations dialed down too much.

[El Oshcuro]

Please remember that this is all done by ONE GUY and he's neither a pro artist or an animator and we love him for it ^__^

Want better models, textures and animations? MOD EM IN!

[Elvisish]

i can't believe there's ANY complaints for this game, it's perfect

Originally posted by El Oshcuro:

Please remember that this is all done by ONE GUY and he's neither a pro artist or an animator and we love him for it ^__^

Want better models, textures and animations? MOD EM IN!

[Damien Azreal]

Originally posted by Elvisish:

i can't believe there's ANY complaints for this game, it's perfect

There's a difference between constructive criticism and complaints. And, even the best games/work can always be improved upon.
Without feedback, people don't learn... they don't grow.

The game is fantastic, I absolutely love it. But, that doesn't mean I shouldn't offer feedback.

Originally posted by El Oshcuro:

Please remember that this is all done by ONE GUY and he's neither a pro artist or an animator and we love him for it ^__^

Want better models, textures and animations? MOD EM IN!

I love what he's done. It's fantastic work.
And I look forward to more, even still... listening to what people have to say (so long as they say it in a civil, mature manor) can only lead to his work improving.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

What kind of mod tools will this game have?

[MuscularMelvin]

^^^Not the right topic to post this in, bud. According to the developers, Trenchbroom is the "official" map builder.[kristianduske.com]

I for one cannot wait until we see the first HD Remix pack. Yeah, I can't wait to play through these low-poly maps with overly-sharp textures and chunky monsters that ruin the atmosphere. Yeah, why not replace Andrew Hulshult's soundtrack with a cacophony of fiddles at that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7vMEaobgJU
Boy oh boy, will I not miss my retinas after having them burned off by the searing bloom effects!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cd_JKFuuCU
HHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP6XLVDpP_M

[Spat856]

LOL! WE'VE GOT A MILLENNIAL CHILD HERE!!! xD

[MuscularMelvin]

I think the key words we need to remember here are "one guy". No matter how talented a single person could be, there's only so much they can do before the seams start to show in the work. Frankly, for what DUSK is, the enemy animations are much better than they could've been. I mean, damn, look at the Shambler in the first video I posted. Now that's some poor animation and modelling!

I wouldn't say OP's a millenial, though. Where's the Patreon link at the end of his rant?

[FuzzyJuzzy]

Originally posted by volcanic_lightning:

I think the key words we need to remember here are "one guy". No matter how talented a single person could be, there's only so much they can do before the seams start to show in the work. Frankly, for what DUSK is, the enemy animations are much better than they could've been. I mean, damn, look at the Shambler in the first video I posted. Now that's some poor animation and modelling!

I wouldn't say OP's a millenial, though. Where's the Patreon link at the end of his rant?

You have got to be kidding me! Did you just call out the modelling and animation of one of the most iconic and classic monsters in the history of video games? The Shambler is absolutely fantastic from almost every perspective and should be the golden benchmark for what can be achieved with limited polys and animation frames.

Edit: I just saw the pathetic butchering of the Shambler you actually posted... that's far from the original Shambler from Quake (original on right):

https://media.giphy.com/media/Jjbb0HlG6KgGA/giphy.gif

[MuscularMelvin]

...Can you read?

The Shambler in the first video I posted. Go to around the 3 minute mark. The character model is completely changed from the original and looks much worse, and the animation is practically zero-effort.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

Originally posted by volcanic_lightning:

...Can you read?

The Shambler in the first video I posted. Go to around the 3 minute mark. The character model is completely changed from the original and looks much worse, and the animation is practically zero-effort.

I'm thankful that you are not insane. The thing you posted was indeed abysmal.

[CrypticMonkey]

Possibly plagiarized too. I thought that the "main attraction" enemy used in a lot of the ads looked familiar. Exactly the same design: hillbilly look, denim overalls, hessian sack with black holes for eyes, and armed with a chainsaw, was taken from an old flash game called Monster Basement or Monster Base for short by Godlimations. You might have come across it if you spent a lot of time on Armorgames or Newgrounds in the mid 2000's... Maybe I'm being paranoid or overreacting, but I think the designs are too similar and obscure in nature to be a coincidence. Unless hillbillies, supernatural hessian sack masks, denim overalls, and chainsaws all share a common thematic trait, then maybe I'm overlooking hence the combination of such traits being used in multiple instances.