C4 vs Advanced Walls...

[InDaZone]

Perhaps decrease C4 damage slightly or increase strength of concrete walls.

Reasoning: If your base is 100% HP it takes 2 C4 to destroy a brick wall and it really only takes 2 C4 and a tickle to destroy a concrete wall. If you are not maintaining your base frequently then it's only 2 C4 for a concrete wall as well. It seems like concrete should give you a more significant defense considering the extra blood, sweat and tears it takes to upgrade them.

[marktkm]

Originally posted by InDaZone:

and a tickle

For 'reasons'... I need to know where these spawn...

Wait, you aren't talking about the purple dong, are you?

Also, +1.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by InDaZone:

Perhaps decrease C4 damage slightly or increase strength of concrete walls.

Reasoning: If your base is 100% HP it takes 2 C4 to destroy a brick wall and it really only takes 2 C4 and a tickle to destroy a concrete wall. If you are not maintaining your base frequently then it's only 2 C4 for a concrete wall as well. It seems like concrete should give you a more significant defense considering the extra blood, sweat and tears it takes to upgrade them.

When I tried it in God mode right after 0.8v up, I could break both brick and concrete with one C4. ATM,two C4s ?

[InDaZone]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by InDaZone:

Perhaps decrease C4 damage slightly or increase strength of concrete walls.

Reasoning: If your base is 100% HP it takes 2 C4 to destroy a brick wall and it really only takes 2 C4 and a tickle to destroy a concrete wall. If you are not maintaining your base frequently then it's only 2 C4 for a concrete wall as well. It seems like concrete should give you a more significant defense considering the extra blood, sweat and tears it takes to upgrade them.

When I tried it in God mode right after 0.8v up, I could break both brick and concrete with one C4. ATM,two C4s ?

Yeah it's been fixed since then, maybe since they added the other demolition items.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by InDaZone:

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

When I tried it in God mode right after 0.8v up, I could break both brick and concrete with one C4. ATM,two C4s ?

Yeah it's been fixed since then, maybe since they added the other demolition items.

Was that so! Good fix.

[Siamese]

In RL brick walls vs. reinforced concrete is no contest. It takes massively more energy to damage concrete and that's precisely the reason for its invention and its standard use in building static defenses. It's beyond silly that the two would take the same amount of explosive to destroy.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

I looked it up on the internet.

The width of the concrete wall in SCUM is, by the looks of it, 1 foot.
7 M5A1s would be enough to break it.

maybe, The C4 size in SCUM is about 6 to 9 M5A1s.
One or two C4s in SCUM would be enough to break one concrete wall.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

I looked it up on the internet.

The width of the concrete wall in SCUM is, by the looks of it, 1 foot.
7 M5A1s would be enough to break it.

maybe, The C4 size in SCUM is about 6 to 9 M5A1s.
One or two C4s in SCUM would be enough to break one concrete wall.

Right but it should be significantly less to break brick in any case. Right now you have no reason to upgrade is the point.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by Siamese:

In RL brick walls vs. reinforced concrete is no contest. It takes massively more energy to damage concrete and that's precisely the reason for its invention and its standard use in building static defenses. It's beyond silly that the two would take the same amount of explosive to destroy.

Indeed,some people feel that the cost performance of the upgrade is not good.

From what I have found in the past, in terms of the power of the bombs, I think it balances out.

Try it in GOD MODE right after grenades and TNT are introduced,

　　 　grenades　TNT
brick　　　7〜8　 2〜3
concrete　10〜11 3〜4 　

＊The above figures may have been corrected.

It seems that C4 = TNT x 1.3, so it is also balanced.

I have upgraded on my own, but it was hard work.
I thought it would be hard to have all that hard work destroyed by one C4.
I'm glad to see that it now seems to be two.

[InDaZone]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by Siamese:

In RL brick walls vs. reinforced concrete is no contest. It takes massively more energy to damage concrete and that's precisely the reason for its invention and its standard use in building static defenses. It's beyond silly that the two would take the same amount of explosive to destroy.

Indeed,some people feel that the cost performance of the upgrade is not good.

From what I have found in the past, in terms of the power of the bombs, I think it balances out.

Try it in GOD MODE right after grenades and TNT are introduced,

　　 　grenades　TNT
brick　　　7〜8　 2〜3
concrete　10〜11 3〜4 　

＊The above figures may have been corrected.

It seems that C4 = TNT x 1.3, so it is also balanced.

I have upgraded on my own, but it was hard work.
I thought it would be hard to have all that hard work destroyed by one C4.
I'm glad to see that it now seems to be two.

I think you are missing the point. It takes 2 C4 to destroy Brick. It takes 2 C4 plus a grenade to destroy concrete. But if you don't maintain your base for only a couple days then it only takes 2 C4 to destroy concrete as well. So unless you online maintaining your base almost daily it doesn't really make sense to spend the time to upgrade to concrete.

Imagine I watch you build your base and I see you have concrete walls. I'm going to wait a couple days and then knock them down with 2 C4. The same amount of C4 it would take to knock down brick. So you wasted your time upgrading to concrete.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by InDaZone:

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Indeed,some people feel that the cost performance of the upgrade is not good.

From what I have found in the past, in terms of the power of the bombs, I think it balances out.

Try it in GOD MODE right after grenades and TNT are introduced,

　　 　grenades　TNT
brick　　　7〜8　 2〜3
concrete　10〜11 3〜4 　

＊The above figures may have been corrected.

It seems that C4 = TNT x 1.3, so it is also balanced.

I have upgraded on my own, but it was hard work.
I thought it would be hard to have all that hard work destroyed by one C4.
I'm glad to see that it now seems to be two.

I think you are missing the point. It takes 2 C4 to destroy Brick. It takes 2 C4 plus a grenade to destroy concrete. But if you don't maintain your base for only a couple days then it only takes 2 C4 to destroy concrete as well. So unless you online maintaining your base almost daily it doesn't really make sense to spend the time to upgrade to concrete.

Imagine I watch you build your base and I see you have concrete walls. I'm going to wait a couple days and then knock them down with 2 C4. The same amount of C4 it would take to knock down brick. So you wasted your time upgrading to concrete.

I see.
Maybe we should branch out from steel walls to bricks, from steel walls to concrete, and so on.
Brick is more resistant to aging and heat than concrete. It would be better if you could choose one over the other instead of upgrading.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by Siamese:

In RL brick walls vs. reinforced concrete is no contest. It takes massively more energy to damage concrete and that's precisely the reason for its invention and its standard use in building static defenses. It's beyond silly that the two would take the same amount of explosive to destroy.

Indeed,some people feel that the cost performance of the upgrade is not good.

From what I have found in the past, in terms of the power of the bombs, I think it balances out.

Try it in GOD MODE right after grenades and TNT are introduced,

　　 　grenades　TNT
brick　　　7〜8　 2〜3
concrete　10〜11 3〜4 　

＊The above figures may have been corrected.

It seems that C4 = TNT x 1.3, so it is also balanced.

I have upgraded on my own, but it was hard work.
I thought it would be hard to have all that hard work destroyed by one C4.
I'm glad to see that it now seems to be two.

yeah, i can see your point here. C4 isn't the only explosive to consider. However, I still think the RL comparison of a brick to cement structure holds for C4. Brick is just not monolithic the way concrete is. It's a far weaker structure all around. While i do you think you are making a fair case here from a strictly game balance point of view i think its misaligned with reality by a good margin.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by Siamese:

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Indeed,some people feel that the cost performance of the upgrade is not good.

From what I have found in the past, in terms of the power of the bombs, I think it balances out.

Try it in GOD MODE right after grenades and TNT are introduced,

　　 　grenades　TNT
brick　　　7〜8　 2〜3
concrete　10〜11 3〜4 　

＊The above figures may have been corrected.

It seems that C4 = TNT x 1.3, so it is also balanced.

I have upgraded on my own, but it was hard work.
I thought it would be hard to have all that hard work destroyed by one C4.
I'm glad to see that it now seems to be two.

yeah, i can see your point here. C4 isn't the only explosive to consider. However, I still think the RL comparison of a brick to cement structure holds for C4. Brick is just not monolithic the way concrete is. It's a far weaker structure all around. While i do you think you are making a fair case here from a strictly game balance point of view i think its misaligned with reality by a good margin.

I believe the data is correct about the damage to the concrete of C4 and TNT. Using this as a starting point, we need to consider the amount of damage each bomb does to the other walls as well.
　　 　grenades 　TNT 　　　C4
Step2　　 3 　　　 　 1 　　　 1
iron　　　 5 　　　　 2　　　　 1
brick　　7〜8→？ 2〜3→？ 　2→？
concrete 10〜11　 3〜4 　 　2+α

What kind of numbers do you consider good?

[InDaZone]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by Siamese:

yeah, i can see your point here. C4 isn't the only explosive to consider. However, I still think the RL comparison of a brick to cement structure holds for C4. Brick is just not monolithic the way concrete is. It's a far weaker structure all around. While i do you think you are making a fair case here from a strictly game balance point of view i think its misaligned with reality by a good margin.

I believe the data is correct about the damage to the concrete of C4 and TNT. Using this as a starting point, we need to consider the amount of damage each bomb does to the other walls as well.
　　 　grenades 　TNT 　　　C4
Step2　　 3 　　　 　 1 　　　 1
iron　　　 5 　　　　 2　　　　 1
brick　　7〜8→？ 2〜3→？ 　3〜4→？
concrete 10〜11　 3〜4 　 　2+α

What kind of numbers do you consider good?

I made a video about the gameplay issue I'm talking about. There's very little difference between the two walls when it comes to destroying them with C4.
Video:
https://youtu.be/AQah7NiWTb4

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by InDaZone:

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

I believe the data is correct about the damage to the concrete of C4 and TNT. Using this as a starting point, we need to consider the amount of damage each bomb does to the other walls as well.
　　 　grenades 　TNT 　　　C4
Step2　　 3 　　　 　 1 　　　 1
iron　　　 5 　　　　 2　　　　 1
brick　　7〜8→？ 2〜3→？ 　2→？
concrete 10〜11　 3〜4 　 　2+α

What kind of numbers do you consider good?

I made a video about the gameplay issue I'm talking about. There's very little difference between the two walls when it comes to destroying them with C4.
Video:
https://youtu.be/AQah7NiWTb4

Yes, that is correct.

Both brick and concrete walls require a lot of work to build. The strength is commensurate with that effort.

Since brick is less strong than concrete, should one C4 be used to break brick wall?

Instead, it would be better to lighten the burden of creating bricks.
Or,
Fiber Reinforced Concrete could be introduced to make it a little stronger.
There may be a way to reduce the C4 needed to break it to 3 pieces.

[InDaZone]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by InDaZone:

I made a video about the gameplay issue I'm talking about. There's very little difference between the two walls when it comes to destroying them with C4.
Video:
https://youtu.be/AQah7NiWTb4

Yes, that is correct.

Both brick and concrete walls require a lot of work to build. The strength is commensurate with that effort.

Since brick is less strong than concrete, should one C4 be used to break brick wall?

Instead, it would be better to lighten the burden of creating bricks.
Or,
Fiber Reinforced Concrete could be introduced to make it a little stronger.
There may be a way to reduce the C4 needed to break it to 3 pieces.

I think it should take at least 3 C4 to destroy concrete. Even if base hasn’t been maintained in a couple days.