[Mechanics] Log in and log out areas (summary)

[Briegel_Busch]

Hello,
Bunker camping, or camping in other hot spots (military camps, airports, harbours, dams) is no problem as long as the player is active in the game. That means he sits in front of the computer and defends "his" area. It only becomes a problem when he logs out there and can later log in again at the same place. Logging in again has the same effect as beaming in in Star Trek. For example, I have searched a room / corridor or crane and am sure that from this direction no danger threatens me and then a player beamed by logging back in directly behind the previously searched areas and kill me. Exactly this has already led to a lot of displeasure with similar games and I think that Scum can learn from such mistakes of others.

But let's look at the pros and cons of the different suggestions:

1: Log in and log out wherever and whenever you want:
A bad idea, for the reasons mentioned above /Beam me up Scotty - Effeckt)

2: BCU timer with implanted bomb
Sounds good at first, but would rob the active camper of fun or add a long search to an unnecessary stress factor with a time limit. And especially if I play single player mode because I only have a little time per game session, this contdown would also make it impossible for me to log out in single player mode.

3: Radioactivity /Gas and similar
Although I would have the possibility to extend the length of stay here, if I am equipped accordingly (gas mask or anti-radiation pills), but on the one hand this would only be useful for players who are well equipped, on the other hand it is only a time limit as described in point 2. In addition, you could probably use this only in bunkers, but not in open hot spots.

3: Making / finding special keys
Either the keys would have to be found in masses, then the situation would not really change much, or there would be only one, then within a short time all bunkers would be occupied and the players who are in the bunker would be almost unassailable. Moreover, a key would only make sense in bunkers, but not in other hot spots.

4: Allow logging out, but remain visible in Hot Spots
I think it's the best solution. In single player it makes no difference to the normal logout, in multiplayer I would be safe from all NPCs, but could be found as a "risk surcharge" for this kind of logout by other players. In addition, I could take out cover before I log out and would be hard to find. For short-term log out for personal reasons or a loss of the Internet connection certainly a good compromise.

4a: Modified proposal to point 4, therefore as sub-item
I would be down with blocking log off in bunkers and big PoI like airfield or trainyard. If you force log off and log back in you would respawn 300 meters -1000 feet- away, fresh (with 0 loot). Crafting shelters could be blocked around those areas too
(650 meters -2130 feet- away minimum).
Quelle: https://steamcommunity.com/app/513710/discussions/0/1735468693707246820/?ctp=3#c1735469327934168161

5: Log out and appear outside the bunker when logging in.
One of the worst solutions ever. This will surely be misused to avoid the risk of leaving the area.

6: No logging out at all in Hot Spots
Theoretically one of the best solutions (if I go where, I must also plan the way back), but on the one hand not technically feasible (deliberately disconnecting the internet connection is like logging out), on the other hand I force a player to a period of time, which is not available in personal emergencies, to get himself out of the area for several -minutes or to remain fully visible and defenceless. This is like an AFK killing and should be avoided.

7: A SAFEZONE LOG OUT SYSTEM!
Added proposal. Detailed explanation in post number 4

So I think point 4 is the best compromise. For the players who actively want to camp a hot spot, as well as for players who want to enter this area. You also have the option to log out for a few minutes to deal with urgent personal matters (changing diapers for the toddler, UPS at the door, your own toilet and so on), but at the same time prevents you from logging out permanently in such areas as you run the risk of being found and plundered.

[srmacpherson]

-1

This punishes players. Or, in the case of #5, rewards them; allows them to exit safely, like you said.

In game-play, you would also sometimes find someone has walked into the bunker/base after you entered. So it results in the same attack from a previously cleared area.

Also, the chance of someone logging onto the server while you werein a bunker and appearing somewhere behind you is slim. If you find yourself dying repeatedly in bunkers due to players "teleporting" in, its because they are cheating. Really. They know where you are and how to get you.

To punish players for having to leave the game and be a responsible human being for a while is always a bad idea. Theres a 20 second logoff timer, thats adequate and normal.

[Briegel_Busch]

It is interesting that someone negates a contribution that also contains the proposal that he himself supports. Or should I read your -1 so that you agree with all points except the first one?

Besides, it's not only about bunkers, but about every High Equipt Area.

And finally, if you are an active player, you will have 2 minutes to leave the hot spot and log off outside the fence.

[srmacpherson]

Originally posted by Briegel_Busch:

Or should I read your -1 so that you agree with all points except the first one?

Besides, it's not only about bunkers, but about every High Equipt Area.

.

No. #1 is the only decent suggestion.

[Rabbitakis]

A SAFEZONE LOG OUT SYSTEM! (moved here after demand)

A safe zone system can protect the players who log out there. if log out in other area , you stay in the game as sleeper and everyone can kill you even if you are offline.

By default when you start the game there will be only 2 safezones in the whole map the outposts. Then as you playing and start dominating the map , you make shelter , you get house, vehicle, boat, a cave , all these can be added to your personal safezones. But some other could have the opportunity to take those from you.

Now it will be possible someone to invade our safezone (except outposts) , the result would be to lose this safezone. If we lose the safezone we dont lose our stuff but just the safezone area (our respawn area)

Thiis idea would be nice for certain HARDCORE private servers.The safezone system will allow you to have several log out safezone points. So if you dominate a sector you will be able to reach your safezone point withing 3-5 minutes. Now this will add to the game an area control strategy so you can reach easily the high lootable POI. That also would happen in a real incident with prisoners. Since its similar to gang wars in the street for area control

Lots of People during the game session want maximum : drama, adrenaline, high competition, agony, unique gameplay, feeling of true survival, to not be safe any time their game. This system makes the game more intense.


Game design problems of logging out everywhere, anytime:

Players can farm easier and faster

Players feel more safe, ( Example if i am looting an area and notice or listen a group of other
players coming to me , evade the battle by logging out.

Or if i am in a bunker and i have taken most of gear there and listen somebody to come from doors or mech gunshot i can evade the battle by hiding in a room and logging out.

Players can evade difficult situation with puppets : A player circled by 5 puppets in a room with 100 health unarrmed can easily press the log out and can evade battle before he dies from puppets. I am sure there are other situations too that someone can evade hostile pve situations.

Players can safely store their loot in their bodies and never lose it no matter where they are in map.

Dont get me wrong the current system of course is not bad , i like it but its less challenging , less realism and too simplistic for a game with enormous survival options (on paper at the moment).


Current system :
At the moment when we log out the stuff on player are safe so thats similar with the safezone system. The boxes that are hidden in map not safe. Thats again the same with safezone system.

A safezone log out system will make the game more balanced and more realistic.

[srmacpherson]

Sleepers in game aren't realistic and they punish players needlessly. No body should feel f'd over just because they have to leave a game. Ever.

Safe zones also punish players. A player shouldn't have to spend a tonne of time to get to a safe zone, JUST so they can safely log off.

A safezone log out system is unfair and as unrealistic as magically disappearing when you log off.

As for lots of people wanting a more dangerous game where they never feel safe: Show me this "lots of people" Because so far its just you and a couple of other people who don't understand life takes precedence over games.

[Rabbitakis]

Well.. Lets provide some info of whats happening to the top 3 online "survival" games in the world at the moment.

FACTS

RUST: You are sleeper no matter where you log out. Your base is decaying , you need to log in often or your base will be auto-destroyed, People can offline raid you and take everything.
Currently now play the game over 20k people ,

Age of Conan: Same mechanic with RUST but also you character may die from thirst and hunger while offline. Some servers have it as optional this feature.
Currently now play the game over 5k people ,

Ark: Your body remains in game and appears to be sleeping. Same mechanic as Rust.
Currently now play the game over 15k people ,

So actually its the most popular and successful log off mechanic currently for the survival games. Why?

SLEEPER SYSTEM IS HARDCORE.(

1, Sleeper mechanic is REALISTIC. Log off anytime anywhere is not.

2. You will have to plan your game before you play it and thats the complexity and the interesting part of playing a game.

3. Its not a system for casual gamer. Not for people who don't have enough time to play COMPETITIVE GAMES. Is SCUM a casual game ? Maybe yes maybe not. Maybe it can be both? Depends of server modification.

4. A player will have to spend much less time to get a safe zone compared with building a fortified base in RUST(4iron doors, codelocks all,stone,etc).

5. A safezone is not only for log off but also for respawning back after losing a battle, similar to shelter system now. So a safezone will mark your area in the map and make your travels to a high loot area faster. So that safezone will give you the power to control the area from other players since you will have the advantage to respawn there.

6. SAFEZONE is not unfair but not so realistic. However raiding your house while you sleep and getting all the loot and the house and kill the player, is unfair but realistic. So safezone system will give a chance to the solo players to survive longer vs clans. Clans by experience many times take advantage of the offline raiding system and destroy the balance in a game by stealing all items from smaller groups or solo players. So a middle point could be to take control of your area but not your stuff also.

[Briegel_Busch]

I honestly don't understand your "security zones". What exactly is that? An area created by the system, a kind of camp with a fence? And if so, how often can they be found, in every square or less often?

Or is it rather your mobile storage place? And if so, how and in what form should it work, only with the makeshift wooden hut that we can already build or with other objects that provide weather protection, the car for example or possibly a tent that fits in the backpack?

[Rabbitakis]

An EXAMPLE OF THE SAFEZONE SYSTEM

2 safezones by default , the outposts. Outpost will be a safezone where nobody can kill other player, even if someone dies (suicide) you will not be able to loot his body. Outpost will be the first area you will be to log out safely in the game. In outpost you will be able also to trade but not store stuff there in crates.

As you play the game you will try to build a shelter. A shelter will give you also a second option to log out safe. Again there will be no crates to store extra stuff. A shelter can be destroyed by other player or taken.

As you play more you find a house you take it , fortify it , put fences and other defending structures. There you will be able to store things. Now again you use this house as an extra safe log out area. Now your players has 3 options to log out safe each time in his game session. (Outpost, Shelter, House). A person who breaks in the house can get the following:
The house, and some stuff stored there from other player ( the looting optional feature in certain servers) .

I dont recommend to loot and kill also the body of the owner of the house (Unfair stealing while afk)(again maybe an option to other type of servers)

Now as you play even more you may find a cave , fortify it and make another safezone, then you have 4 different options to log out.

Then you play more and you find a tent where you can put it in your backpack and have a mobile log out safezone. The tent will be possible to build it away from POI with high loot such as bunkers, airport , naval base etc.. This will be your fifth option to log out and its a good option since its a mobile safezone sturcture. Now if someone finds your tent he can destroy it or take it. Again i think its not fair to the thief to loot and kill also the owner of the tent.

You play even more you find a car an RV. Then you can also use this similar with tent as mobile safezone stucture. but this one will have the option to be a fortified mobile safezone structure.

Now you have six options to log out.

So implementing this feature , it will give protection of the player who is not online to the game
without destroying the balance of the game.

At the moment the balance is broken since everyone can log out and log in anytime, anywhere and that system is not fair at all.

By logging out and log in anywhere , anytime you can abuse the system and do the following

Farm faster, KOS people easier, Leave server when in danger, Avoid contact with people or PVE, Camp places without being online.

The system with safezone log out - log in system together with the sleeper mode in other areas is not possible to be implemented at this stage of the game. It needs workable outposts, fortification system in houses, caves and other mobile base features such as tents, cars , boats, sleeping bags.

Thanks for reading.

[Briegel_Busch]

Starting from your option "Tent" your suggestion corresponds to my favorite suggestion number 4 (Unsubscribe only outside of Hot Spots), i.e. suggestion 5 where you don't want to be able to log out within a Hot Spot.

So I can see that your suggestion is quite positive, except for the fact that it is always possible to plunder the offline player. It's also problematic if you're confronted with the most difficult logout conditions as a new character (long ways to the savezone). And the taking over of your own safe zone while the player is not on should generally be prevented. In the RL I would probably wake up if someone wanted to destroy my accommodation or plunder and could either try to defend myself or at least flee with some of my equipment if I am attacked by a group.

However, if every char would be sent to the island with a tent and would have to use it as a safe logout zone (setting up costs time, then every time after that safe logout is possible), we would almost be back to the current system.

I know that you would rather have a hardcore survival game with a corresponding risk for the players. But let's face it, the majority of people who will play this game are people who are looking for a bit of adventure in the evening after work for 1 or 2 hours. You can't expect them to have such a complicated logout system.

I still prefer suggestion number 4, possibly with the option to leave a small tent at the logoff point to show others "there was someone in the area, I have to be careful he might come back" without looting the tent in any way (but it shouldn't contain any storage space either).

[Priest]

-1
7th thread about that topic

I am tired to argue with arguments only to be ignored.

[Briegel_Busch]

Only that here all previous suggestions were summarized around times an overview to create. In addition, anyone who wants to actively participate in the development / improvement of the game can name his favorite and if necessary also give reasons.

[Dregor]

-1

Almost all of your reasons to restrict logging out (aka people logging out in military areas) are going to be eliminated naturally through game mechanics that are planned. Adding draconian measures to prevent it happening during the alpha is a waste of the dev's time and resources.

[Briegel_Busch]

And what would that be?
So far I can't see anything that would make a logout/login into Hot Spots later unattractive.

And by the way, these are all collected suggestions from the different threads, they didn't grow on my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (except number 4).

[Priest]

Access control for the Hot spots will care about that if it contains any way to set a time limit you can be in that area.

And i wouldnt care about the need to logoff outside. Most Pois the way in has a very low chance to kill you and need only a few minutes to go in.

That what annoys people is when others use the main entrance death trap to camp a bunker. And these player doing that dont log off, they turn the sound loud and wait for a other player making noises when he try to enter.

Disallow logging in bunker will help them the most. No more surprises from behind when you camp in the Deathtrap spot and farm other player

[Briegel_Busch]

What access control? As I said, I couldn't find anything like that on the roadmap. And if there really should be something like a key for a bunker door later on, what use is it against someone who, for example, sits on a crane in the harbour, snips happily for 1 - 2 hours and then logs out there only to be able to snipe directly from there again the next day, without having to bear the risk of having to penetrate again until then and avoiding the mechs and zombies?

Don't forget, Hot Spots don't just mean bunkers, but all High Loot areas!