Thoughts on the Lockpicking System in SCUM

[Jia.Wan]

Even though I know the developers are unlikely to change this system anytime soon, I still want to share my perspective.

1. The Mouse Macro Problem
Let’s set aside cheating for now, but we can’t ignore mouse macros. I bought one last year to test its effectiveness and posted about it.

Current State: Mouse macros can open gold locks in 3 attempts or less, with 100% success.

Issue: Macros are hardware-driven and not considered cheating, which is unfair to players who practice lockpicking legitimately.

2. The Core Problem: Unrealistic Locking Mechanics
Here’s what bothers me:

Example 1: I raided a car, shot off its front left door with a machine gun, and got inside. But I can’t store any items in the car because it’s still locked.

Example 2: I found someone’s locked box. That’s it—just a lock.

In both cases, the logic breaks down:

Why can’t I hotwire the car or pry open the box with a crowbar?

Why does a car with no doors remain locked?

3. My Suggestions for Improvement
Alternative Lockpicking Methods:

Add hotwiring for cars and crowbar prying for boxes.

Introduce keycards or remote locks for doors and vehicles.

Violent Entry:

Allow players to forcefully break into locked items (e.g., smash car windows, break box locks).

Damaged items could have reduced functionality (e.g., a smashed car door reduces storage space).

4. Why This Matters
The current lockpicking system:

Renders the lockpicking skill useless due to macros.

Breaks immersion with unrealistic mechanics (e.g., locked cars with no doors).

Limits player creativity by forcing one solution (lockpicking minigame).

5. Final Thoughts
Lockpicking should be one of many options, not the only way to access locked items. Adding alternative methods (hotwiring, crowbars) would make the game more realistic and engaging.

What do you all think? Should SCUM overhaul its lockpicking system?

Let me know your thoughts! 😊

[daw593server]

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

1. The Mouse Macro Problem
Let’s set aside cheating for now, but we can’t ignore mouse macros. I bought one last year to test its effectiveness and posted about it.

Current State: Mouse macros can open gold locks in 3 attempts or less, with 100% success.

Issue: Macros are hardware-driven and not considered cheating, which is unfair to players who practice lockpicking legitimately.

I disagree; it is cheating. If you are caught on the server where I admin, you would be immediately banned and evidence would be submitted for a game ban as well.

Sarah

[Cezar]

I agree, this is a big problem. I have been saying for a long time that the lockpicking system is the second most important problem in the game. (The first is cheaters)

I suggested making it as a mathematical chance of opening a lock. An improved master key can increase the chance... Maybe it should be done somehow differently... But it definitely needs to be changed. This is a big problem.

Even if the developers remove some of the cheaters, the problem of lockpicking will remain and may become one of the reasons for the failure of the game upon release. Many new players will come to the game, but their bases will still be easy to open, people will not like it. People want to feel more secure behind the lock, otherwise what are they for.

There is no balance in base protection and raiding. It is much more difficult to build a base than to open it.

Why did they weaken the door lock protection? It should shock more.

Why did they weaken the combination lock? It should take away more glory points. Maybe then let there be a 4-digit code?

[daw593server]

Here is the Devs position on macros:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/513710/discussions/0/3278068270796134602/

Sarah

[Jia.Wan]

Originally posted by daw593server:

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

1. The Mouse Macro Problem
Let’s set aside cheating for now, but we can’t ignore mouse macros. I bought one last year to test its effectiveness and posted about it.

Current State: Mouse macros can open gold locks in 3 attempts or less, with 100% success.

Issue: Macros are hardware-driven and not considered cheating, which is unfair to players who practice lockpicking legitimately.

I disagree; it is cheating. If you are caught on the server where I admin, you would be immediately banned and evidence would be submitted for a game ban as well.

Sarah

Do you know what the biggest difference between mouse macros and cheating is? Cheating involves intercepting memory information, forcibly embedding or modifying game content, exploiting game vulnerabilities for profit, and so on.
On the other hand, a mouse macro, in theory, simply replaces the actions of your hand. Many large games even have built-in "macros." Logically, mouse macros are hardware-driven. Even if a game defines this mode as cheating, since it does not damage the game's memory information or intercept or tamper with the game's information through implantation or modification, logically, it is just a fast-executing "hand." It cannot be defined as cheating. Because, in terms of game feedback, executing a macro equals a fast hand.
For example, I have a magnetic axis keyboard, and the bounce speed of the F key is adjusted to 0.2nm. Do you think this is cheating? Ordinary keyboards have a delay of around 10-25NM (the minimum time interval between pressing and releasing), but a magnetic axis keyboard only needs 1nm... or even less. Is it cheating if I use this magnetic axis keyboard to operate? Just because my hardware is more advanced, I have more keystrokes than you.
And that's the principle of macros. The delay of you pressing F with your hand will never be as low as using a macro, and the sensitivity of you moving the mouse will never be as precise as using a macro. But at the basic logic level, whether you use a high-end mouse + magnetic axis keyboard or a macro, they are all hardware-driven. So how do you determine that it is cheating?

[daw593server]

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

Originally posted by daw593server:

I disagree; it is cheating. If you are caught on the server where I admin, you would be immediately banned and evidence would be submitted for a game ban as well.

Sarah

Do you know what the biggest difference between mouse macros and cheating is? Cheating involves intercepting memory information, forcibly embedding or modifying game content, exploiting game vulnerabilities for profit, and so on.
On the other hand, a mouse macro, in theory, simply replaces the actions of your hand. Many large games even have built-in "macros." Logically, mouse macros are hardware-driven. Even if a game defines this mode as cheating, since it does not damage the game's memory information or intercept or tamper with the game's information through implantation or modification, logically, it is just a fast-executing "hand." It cannot be defined as cheating. Because, in terms of game feedback, executing a macro equals a fast hand.
For example, I have a magnetic axis keyboard, and the bounce speed of the F key is adjusted to 0.2nm. Do you think this is cheating? Ordinary keyboards have a delay of around 10-25NM (the minimum time interval between pressing and releasing), but a magnetic axis keyboard only needs 1nm... or even less. Is it cheating if I use this magnetic axis keyboard to operate? Just because my hardware is more advanced, I have more keystrokes than you.
And that's the principle of macros. The delay of you pressing F with your hand will never be as low as using a macro, and the sensitivity of you moving the mouse will never be as precise as using a macro. But at the basic logic level, whether you use a high-end mouse + magnetic axis keyboard or a macro, they are all hardware-driven. So how do you determine that it is cheating?

With all due respect, Jia.Wan, the Devs have explicitly stated that the use of macros is cheating and a bannable offense.

Nothing you say can change that. Well, maybe a suggestion to change their view.

Please do not suggest to others that macros are allowed. They are not.

See my post above yours.

Sarah

[Jia.Wan]

You need to understand that macros cannot be definitively identified. They are akin to programming in Python. This is the awkward part. As I mentioned, if I use a magnetic axis keyboard to achieve a 0.2nm delay, is that considered cheating? Or is it that whether you use advanced equipment, macros, or simply have superb skills, reaching a certain level will be deemed as cheating? That certainly doesn't seem fair. Therefore, the issue isn't just whether macros will be banned, but how you determine whether someone is using a macro. That's the crux of the problem.

[Jia.Wan]

Originally posted by daw593server:

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

Do you know what the biggest difference between mouse macros and cheating is? Cheating involves intercepting memory information, forcibly embedding or modifying game content, exploiting game vulnerabilities for profit, and so on.
On the other hand, a mouse macro, in theory, simply replaces the actions of your hand. Many large games even have built-in "macros." Logically, mouse macros are hardware-driven. Even if a game defines this mode as cheating, since it does not damage the game's memory information or intercept or tamper with the game's information through implantation or modification, logically, it is just a fast-executing "hand." It cannot be defined as cheating. Because, in terms of game feedback, executing a macro equals a fast hand.
For example, I have a magnetic axis keyboard, and the bounce speed of the F key is adjusted to 0.2nm. Do you think this is cheating? Ordinary keyboards have a delay of around 10-25NM (the minimum time interval between pressing and releasing), but a magnetic axis keyboard only needs 1nm... or even less. Is it cheating if I use this magnetic axis keyboard to operate? Just because my hardware is more advanced, I have more keystrokes than you.
And that's the principle of macros. The delay of you pressing F with your hand will never be as low as using a macro, and the sensitivity of you moving the mouse will never be as precise as using a macro. But at the basic logic level, whether you use a high-end mouse + magnetic axis keyboard or a macro, they are all hardware-driven. So how do you determine that it is cheating?

With all due respect, Jia.Wan, the Devs have explicitly stated that the use of macros is cheating and a bannable offense.

Nothing you say can change that.

Please do not suggest to others that macros are allowed. They are not.

See my post above yours.

Sarah

Do you know why I am arguing against the current lock-picking mode? It's because with the advent of advanced equipment, you can easily perform some "threshold" operations due to ultra-fine mouse resolution and highly sensitive magnetic axis keyboards, among others. These are hard to judge.
OK, macros themselves are cheating, but you can't determine whether the other party is using a macro, or advanced equipment, or if the person is just naturally gifted. Because all three are directly driven by hardware. That's the root of the problem. I dislike this because it wastes the time of all players who have practiced lock-picking. I have also mentioned this issue in previous posts.
You need to understand that keyboards with different bearings can achieve different effects. Currently, the best I've tested is the magnetic axis keyboard because it allows for precise adjustments. With the same skill level, I can have more than three additional keystrokes compared to you. And the extra buttons on a logical mouse can instantly reduce the resolution to an ideal level, such as 400p, when you find the keyhole. Combined with the adjustments of the magnetic axis keyboard, you can easily pick a gold lock in a short time. So, do you think this is also cheating? Essentially, a macro just executes more keystrokes and finer keyhole searches. This is the root of my skepticism.

[daw593server]

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

You need to understand that macros cannot be definitively identified. They are akin to programming in Python. This is the awkward part. As I mentioned, if I use a magnetic axis keyboard to achieve a 0.2nm delay, is that considered cheating? Or is it that whether you use advanced equipment, macros, or simply have superb skills, reaching a certain level will be deemed as cheating? That certainly doesn't seem fair. Therefore, the issue isn't just whether macros will be banned, but how you determine whether someone is using a macro. That's the crux of the problem.

As an admin, I am not about to comment on how I would know - but I would. You should know better than that.

You have admitted to using macros in SCUM and now you are suggesting that others can do so without being detected. This is extremely disappointing, Jia.Wan. Read the Dev post I included above.

Sarah

[[p][u][n] ☕]

The current lock picking system almost certainly can't combat macros because the "picking" is simply finding the right degree to angle the pick and turning the lock. In order to make it too difficult for macros, you'd make it almost impossible for humans.

An uncomfortable truth to make lock picking work soley on user input would be something akin to maybe how lockpicking works in elder scrolls oblivion - pushing the pins upward and visually seeing the pin stick while then working the remaining pins.

I'm not saying that should be what scum should have, but to put emphasis that corrective adjustments in lockpicking should be something that a macro can't check your screen for, ie, position of individual pins.

Is the juice worth the squeeze for an entirely new pick mechanic? I don't know, I won't hazard a guess, but I'm not exactly a champion for elder scrolls skyrim picking mechanic.

[Jia.Wan]

Originally posted by daw593server:

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

You need to understand that macros cannot be definitively identified. They are akin to programming in Python. This is the awkward part. As I mentioned, if I use a magnetic axis keyboard to achieve a 0.2nm delay, is that considered cheating? Or is it that whether you use advanced equipment, macros, or simply have superb skills, reaching a certain level will be deemed as cheating? That certainly doesn't seem fair. Therefore, the issue isn't just whether macros will be banned, but how you determine whether someone is using a macro. That's the crux of the problem.

As an admin, I am not about to comment on how I would know - but I would. You should know better than that.

You have admitted to using macros in SCUM and now you are suggesting that others can do so without being detected. This is extremely disappointing, Jia.Wan. Read the Dev post I included above.

Sarah

No, no, no. I do not support this approach; on the contrary, I find it quite distasteful. In my server (I only have one set of PVP servers), if you pick someone else's lock, you need to record a video to confirm it. But this doesn't mean much. The reason I can question the current lock-picking issue is because of the unfairness caused by either hardware devices or macros! It's really annoying! Do you understand what I mean? I am not suggesting that everyone should use macros. What I hope for is to fundamentally solve this problem. When you encounter a problem, you either solve the problem or eliminate the person who created the problem. Hahahahaha....

[CrankyOldMan]

You said you run 5 servers 4 pve and 1 pvp....

5. Final Thoughts
Lockpicking should be one of many options, not the only way to access locked items. Adding alternative methods (hotwiring, crowbars) would make the game more realistic and engaging.

What do you all think? Should SCUM overhaul its lockpicking system?

**You don't know that crowbars can be used to open in game lockers NOW!????**

They cannot be used on player based locks but on any in game locker including the container drops they can.


I have NOT EVER in any of my Decades of playing games seen a lock picking system that has never at some point never had a macro designed for it!
Even single player Skyrim had a macro mod for lock picking!

There always will be a macro developed even if Scum changes the system.

Lock picking is extremely easy in this game macros are not necessary at all.
All they do is speed up the process for those that cheat!

In regards to macro use for lock picking a dev already answered it a long time ago:

GamerBeast [개발자] 2019년 8월 20일 오전 4시 14분
We will continue to monitor how players use the mechanic and try to negate any exploits. If you do manage to get any videos of people using exploits, please send them to me on Discord - my name is Kristian on there.

[Ele]

Originally posted by daw593server:

Originally posted by Jia.Wan:

You need to understand that macros cannot be definitively identified. They are akin to programming in Python. This is the awkward part. As I mentioned, if I use a magnetic axis keyboard to achieve a 0.2nm delay, is that considered cheating? Or is it that whether you use advanced equipment, macros, or simply have superb skills, reaching a certain level will be deemed as cheating? That certainly doesn't seem fair. Therefore, the issue isn't just whether macros will be banned, but how you determine whether someone is using a macro. That's the crux of the problem.

As an admin, I am not about to comment on how I would know - but I would. You should know better than that.

You have admitted to using macros in SCUM and now you are suggesting that others can do so without being detected. This is extremely disappointing, Jia.Wan. Read the Dev post I included above.

Sarah

You are completely full of it! I've ran my own SCUM server, NO you would NOT ever know if someone is using a macro to unlock lockers. Unless you are watching him as a drone, and even then, you wouldn't be sure, because if someone has decent skill with lockpicking, they can lockpick pretty much anything. Damn, I hate people like you who try to wave magic "ADMIN" ♥♥♥♥ to scare people off things you don't like or accept or whatever. Glad I'm not on your server.

[CrankyOldMan]

It is extremely hard to know the difference between a very good legit picker and a macro user.
Also admins cannot go by Account game time cause they could be using a new alt account. A learned game skill is a learned game skill right!

I have ran Scum servers for 4 years now:
In some cases it can be done. It still is extremely hard to detect in most cases imo.

It is usually other things that they do in game that rats them out over time! Again IMO.

Two things need to be happening at the same time to catch them and yes one of them is in the drone actually observing. That does not revel much if anything itself...

The one problem with that is if they are using a macro they probably are also using other cheat programs!

The time sink to watch usually is not worth it imo.

[daw593server]

Originally posted by Ele:

You are completely full of it! I've ran my own SCUM server, NO you would NOT ever know if someone is using a macro to unlock lockers. Unless you are watching him as a drone, and even then, you wouldn't be sure, because if someone has decent skill with lockpicking, they can lockpick pretty much anything. Damn, I hate people like you who try to wave magic "ADMIN" ♥♥♥♥ to scare people off things you don't like or accept or whatever.

Hi Ele,

I truly respect your opinion; perhaps you will understand more if I explain a few things without giving away too much. I will remain civil and respectful, I ask that you do the same.

When I say "I would know", it is not the product of my own observations, my own interpretation of data, or my personal knowledge. Yes, I have been instructed in the "tricks of the trade" to identify cheating that would be more in the visual realm (or baited, etc.), but that is only part of how cheaters are discovered. I rely on others with specific specialities, working in collaboration, to provide a far more comprehensive picture of what is going on.

The server is administered by a team of five individuals, all known personally to me and the server owner, so admin coverage is far more extensive that would be typical for a server of this size and we communicate very effectively. Each of us has specialities; mine include (but are not limited to) high-level oversight of investigations, server settings and play testing, overseeing the server whitelist, and vetting potential players for the server. My primary duty though is to act as the admin team leader to keep the team focused and coordinated. I also happen to love playing SCUM and have the time available to me to dedicate to admin duties while also playing the game.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3420628333
I have no way of knowing if you are aware of alternative ways to identify those using cheats, but I can assure you that there is a lot more going on than is visible at the surface. Drones are just a single tool and cannot be absolutely relied upon (as you state) to reliably uncover the truth. Player reports are also just a starting point; they are often sent without an understanding of game mechanics and the percentage of accuracy tends to be limited.

So what else is there? Having a "white hat" team member and another with an extensive data analysis background helps - this is common knowledge - and there are many other strategies (and a few specialities) that I will not expand upon in a public forum. I will give one clue that covers one of these specialities though; one particular admin team member does not appear in the image I shared above - can you think of a reason why?

Glad I'm not on your server.

We have been working on server settings and play testing for many, many months alongside a small number of play testers to develop a balanced PVE/PVP experience and have decided not to open the server to others until after 1.0 releases. At that time I will be posting in the appropriate discussion section and you are certainly welcome to give it a try if you like.

Sarah

[zacho233]

I knew there was a good reason I have already blocked this guy.



NO REGERTZ