China Report: My observations in China

[daw593server]

We recently returned from a long trip to mainland China. After spending a few days in Hong Kong, we headed across the border and had a chance to visit multiple cities from the warm south to the freezing cold north.

But this post is not about the places we visited or the sights that we saw. Instead, I want to share our discussions with members of the Chinese gaming community. We shared some time with Chinese players during our trip and were fortunate to share meals and discussions with both casual and hardcore players. They had no idea that we were admins on a private server; the conversations were brutally honest, and we had no reason to doubt their insights. And yes, a few play SCUM.

First and foremost, mainland Chinese players must be clever to play outside of China. Except for Hong Kong-based gamers, the use of VPNs is not a method to hide their location; it is a must for mainland Chinese if they want to join servers outside of China. Thus, the use of a VPN by mainland Chinese is to be expected and does not automatically suggest that a mainland Chinese player is cheating.

Second, there is a perception amongst Chinese gamers that a relatively small percentage of Chinese cheaters have created widespread discrimination against the entire Chinese gaming community. This was a common thread in our discussions and the feeling of frustration was quite evident. One of the most common statements was that many cheaters are from other countries but that they do not receive the kind of attention that Chinese cheaters seem to get.

Yes, there is a segment of the Chinese gaming community that uses cheats and hacks to obtain an advantage. We learned that there are certain cultural drivers in China that, for some located there, influence cheating in video games. It is something of “anything less than winning makes you a loser”; however, this does not seem to be as widespread as one might perceive.

We were told regularly that players that cheat are not respected within the Chinese gaming community and are avoided when their cheating is uncovered. Still, some manage to join squads and blend in until their activity is discovered (by other squad members or admins); others form squads of their own. When cheating is discovered by admins, there is a perception that guilt by association is more commonly applied to other Chinese squad members (as a blanket penalty) when they were honestly not aware that other squad members were cheating.

Several players reported being kicked or banned from servers simply because of using Chinese characters in their usernames. Their message was that admins should look for activities and/or actions that identify cheating rather than making assumptions based on where a player is located or the language they use. Anything less represents race-based discrimination.

Two reported being severely and continuously harassed by players based only on their race; reporting such behaviour did not result in penalties to the non-Chinese perpetrator at all. We have seen YouTube videos centred on Chinese player harassment before visiting China from certain content creators and this should never be acceptable. Players that harass others for any reason should be penalised appropriately after such activity is reported and confirmed.

Language barriers tend to result in Chinese players creating a sub-community of their own. Any community that appears to be closed to others will tend to breed suspicion; however, the Chinese players that we met asked for a fair chance to be part of the overall community. I think they deserve the same opportunity, consideration, and respect as any other group of players.

Sarah

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3405624940
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3405625609
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3405627463
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3405627871

[marktkm]

Your pictures make it look like you were held at gunpoint and forced to look at tourist attractions the entire trip.

(Or you just had to keep flagging down your friends who kept wandering off.)

XD

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Excellent!

[Doc Holliday]

Originally posted by daw593server:

We recently returned from a long trip to mainland China. After spending a few days in Hong Kong, we headed across the border and had a chance to visit multiple cities from the warm south to the freezing cold north.

[snip]

Language barriers tend to result in Chinese players creating a sub-community of their own. Any community that appears to be closed to others will tend to breed suspicion; however, the Chinese players that we met asked for a fair chance to be part of the overall community. I think they deserve the same opportunity, consideration, and respect as any other group of players.

Sarah

Nice post. The bit that doesn't add up for me, numbers-wise though is that the vast majority of server and game bans are associated with accounts that can be traced back in one way or another to some of the Asian countries. Proportionally the % of cheaters per player total is significantly higher than any other area.

So I would respectfully suggest that you spoke to a group of non-cheaters (for obvious reasons) and that isn't the full story.

Having worked a few years ago in a cybersec company I've seen some strong evidence of widespread networks of 'cheating communities' where cheating is (sadly) only one part of the worrying move to try and avoid detection for all sorts of nefarious reasons. This wasn't limited to those countries quoted above but they were a LARGE percentage of the pie chart!

[Deathwhisper]

Please don't let the discussion deviate to the point of assigning blame as the main reason for the topic, because that is not the idea of ​​the topic as far as I can see.

The point is that we should not blame the nationality as such but only those who actually did the crime. In the end, nationality plays no role, because behavior is a decision made by an individual who interprets fairness differently than intended, for whatever reason. (I'm not going to start any psychological profiling here).

It's a nice post that definitely goes a long way toward showing that cheating and dishonorable behavior is by no means considered good, even in the cultures that are so often accused of it. But black sheep are unfortunately more conspicuous than those who simply love gaming and enjoy playing a round with others.

[oynlengeymer]

tell me you work for JagX without telling me..

[oynlengeymer]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Please don't let the discussion deviate to the point of assigning blame as the main reason for the topic, because that is not the idea of ​​the topic as far as I can see.

The point is that we should not blame the nationality as such but only those who actually did the crime. In the end, nationality plays no role, because behavior is a decision made by an individual who interprets fairness differently than intended, for whatever reason. (I'm not going to start any psychological profiling here).

It's a nice post that definitely goes a long way toward showing that cheating and dishonorable behavior is by no means considered good, even in the cultures that are so often accused of it. But black sheep are unfortunately more conspicuous than those who simply love gaming and enjoy playing a round with others.

There has been plenty of deep dives into the culture. "win at all costs" Ofc not everyone is onboard, but only the culturally acceptable 98%...

[Doc Holliday]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Please don't let the discussion deviate to the point of assigning blame as the main reason for the topic, because that is not the idea of ​​the topic as far as I can see.

The point is that we should not blame the nationality as such but only those who actually did the crime. In the end, nationality plays no role, because behavior is a decision made by an individual who interprets fairness differently than intended, for whatever reason. (I'm not going to start any psychological profiling here).

It's a nice post that definitely goes a long way toward showing that cheating and dishonorable behavior is by no means considered good, even in the cultures that are so often accused of it. But black sheep are unfortunately more conspicuous than those who simply love gaming and enjoy playing a round with others.

I respectfully disagree. Evidence shows that this is far more ingrained in that culture than any other. There are other countries and areas that are up there too but the Asian areas are unsurprisingly far ahead (I guess being a tech-biased/advanced people in general is part of the reason).

I was only trying to raise a valid and respectful counterpoint from experience and evidence is all, I think it's naive and in some cases, just plain wrong to make assumptions based on discussions with a few folk personally. I'll wander off though if balanced discussion isn't wanted here.

[Deathwhisper]

Originally posted by oynlengeymer:

There has been plenty of deep dives into the culture. "win at all costs" Ofc not everyone is onboard, but only the culturally acceptable 98%...

These are always questionable perspectives to be honest. Either you experience it yourself or you rely on biased statements that want to prove or disprove something.

You could just as easily apply the statement to all other regions and thereby achieve success in "proving" it. Pressure of expectations, expectations, etc. But as I said, it doesn't help or really last if you don't get to know the people personally. It's no different in Germany, for example. The expectations of success are immense. Anyone who doesn't manage that very often and very quickly rubs people the wrong way and comes under pressure to perform or social pressure in the sense of being viewed as "derogatory" or "borderline". This is not something that applies exclusively to one country.

I have personally had a lot of contact with Asian regions in general and have only very rarely experienced people cheering when you cheat. On the contrary, the people were very friendly and often generous and anyone who caused mischief was quickly put in their place.

Originally posted by Doc Holliday:

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Please don't let the discussion deviate to the point of assigning blame as the main reason for the topic, because that is not the idea of ​​the topic as far as I can see.

The point is that we should not blame the nationality as such but only those who actually did the crime. In the end, nationality plays no role, because behavior is a decision made by an individual who interprets fairness differently than intended, for whatever reason. (I'm not going to start any psychological profiling here).

It's a nice post that definitely goes a long way toward showing that cheating and dishonorable behavior is by no means considered good, even in the cultures that are so often accused of it. But black sheep are unfortunately more conspicuous than those who simply love gaming and enjoy playing a round with others.

I respectfully disagree. Evidence shows that this is far more ingrained in that culture than any other. There are other countries and areas that are up there too but the Asian areas are unsurprisingly far ahead (I guess being a tech-biased/advanced people in general is part of the reason).

I was only trying to raise a valid and respectful counterpoint from experience and evidence is all, I think it's naive and in some cases, just plain wrong to make assumptions based on discussions with a few folk personally. I'll wander off though if balanced discussion isn't wanted here.

That wasn't meant to be discouraging, but simply as a reminder that people there are not all the same, just as they are here.

I just want to point out that you shouldn't just lump everyone together. In Western countries there is exactly the same pressure to perform as I mentioned above.

I can only speak about the country I live in, which is the most respectful thing possible, I'm not talking about other cultures in which I didn't grow up, but in Germany the expectations of performance are immense. Anyone who "fails" too often here will notice it, very clearly. During my work I often have to work with a mistake that I have to fix because someone else made it deliberately. There are so many different reasons for this, but it also applies to the topic and you can find it everywhere in general because people all over the world think in a similar way.

And I think it is very important to point out that other cultures also have no interest in these fraudulent activities, because it should always be a reminder that other people are just people like us. With the same sense of honour, respect and a life that is lived that is not dissimilar to ours, even with the best will in the world, just different (this also applies to every country in the world).

[Doc Holliday]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

[snip]

Originally posted by Doc Holliday:

I respectfully disagree. Evidence shows that this is far more ingrained in that culture than any other. There are other countries and areas that are up there too but the Asian areas are unsurprisingly far ahead (I guess being a tech-biased/advanced people in general is part of the reason).

I was only trying to raise a valid and respectful counterpoint from experience and evidence is all, I think it's naive and in some cases, just plain wrong to make assumptions based on discussions with a few folk personally. I'll wander off though if balanced discussion isn't wanted here.

That wasn't meant to be discouraging, but simply as a reminder that people there are not all the same, just as they are here.

I just want to point out that you shouldn't just lump everyone together. In Western countries there is exactly the same pressure to perform as I mentioned above.

I can only speak about the country I live in, which is the most respectful thing possible, I'm not talking about other cultures in which I didn't grow up, but in Germany the expectations of performance are immense. Anyone who "fails" too often here will notice it, very clearly. During my work I often have to work with a mistake that I have to fix because someone else made it deliberately. There are so many different reasons for this, but it also applies to the topic and you can find it everywhere in general because people all over the world think in a similar way.

And I think it is very important to point out that other cultures also have no interest in these fraudulent activities, because it should always be a reminder that other people are just people like us. With the same sense of honour, respect and a life that is lived that is not dissimilar to ours, even with the best will in the world, just different (this also applies to every country in the world).

Very true, as always with these things (and other WAY more serious things I won't mention here) it's a minority that spoil it for the majority.

Nice post, I enjoyed reading that <3

[CrankyOldMan]

This actually surprised me when I googled it!
When adjusted against shear volume of people living in the country!
This is for any game not just Scum!

The World’s Biggest Gaming Cheaters

By analysing Google search volume data, Uswitch calculated how many people were actively seeking ‘cheat codes’, ‘cheats’ and cheat codes for specific games, in every country around the world, along with every state in the US.

The search volumes were then adjusted to account for each country’s population to create an index score, to make sure the data compared like for like. The results expose the top 20 countries most likely to cheat while playing video games.

The top 20 countries that cheat the most at video games (and the cheating index score):

Position Country Index ranking score
1 Russia 18.40
2 Italy 16.58
3 Israel 4.87
4 Japan 4.48
5 Sweden 4.03
6 Romania 3.13
7 Portugal 2.36
8 Turkey 2.34
9 Brazil 2.32
10 Denmark 2.28
11 United States 2.10
12 Ireland 2.00
13 Argentina 1.92
14 Poland 1.77
15 Croatia 1.52
16 United Kingdom 1.43
17 New Zealand 1.41
18 Canada 1.35
19 Australia 1.28
20 Bulgaria 1.13

[Andi]

Nothing surprising tbh. Most of Google is blocked in China, hence people use VPNs.
No wonder China's not on that list, but Russia is in first place. Go figure...

[Samantha Raven]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Please don't let the discussion deviate to the point of assigning blame as the main reason for the topic, because that is not the idea of ​​the topic as far as I can see.

The point is that we should not blame the nationality as such but only those who actually did the crime. In the end, nationality plays no role, because behavior is a decision made by an individual who interprets fairness differently than intended, for whatever reason. (I'm not going to start any psychological profiling here).

It's a nice post that definitely goes a long way toward showing that cheating and dishonorable behavior is by no means considered good, even in the cultures that are so often accused of it. But black sheep are unfortunately more conspicuous than those who simply love gaming and enjoy playing a round with others.

this is really well put, I'd also like to point out china has a population of 1,417,593,300 people. so when u compair numbers to other countrys around world when u compair there national population of cheaters in a % base compair to numbers to other countrys that have cheaters.

The Number of cheaters from china would prob be a fraction % wise to each nation with cheaters.

The issue why china so reconise for cheaters is because even if 1-5million cheat but the rest of the population dosn't that number alone would be a fragment of there over all population of gamers a crumb in % but to rest of the world thats a insane amount but % wise its lower then other countrys from a national population % standpoint.

So its very easy to place judgement on china when it feels so common that it comes from them but its not like China dosn't dislike the criminals in there country ether and the cheaters. So All we can do is treat every cheater the same no matter there nationality and let us all focus on the crime it self and the one that commits it.

Any ways this my thoughts on it, I wasn't going to post on this topic but Deathwhisper well put post made me want to also share my own thoughts.

Edit:

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

This actually surprised me when I googled it!
When adjusted against shear volume of people living in the country!
This is for any game not just Scum!

The World’s Biggest Gaming Cheaters

By analysing Google search volume data, Uswitch calculated how many people were actively seeking ‘cheat codes’, ‘cheats’ and cheat codes for specific games, in every country around the world, along with every state in the US.

The search volumes were then adjusted to account for each country’s population to create an index score, to make sure the data compared like for like. The results expose the top 20 countries most likely to cheat while playing video games.

The top 20 countries that cheat the most at video games (and the cheating index score):

Position Country Index ranking score
1 Russia 18.40
2 Italy 16.58
3 Israel 4.87
4 Japan 4.48
5 Sweden 4.03
6 Romania 3.13
7 Portugal 2.36
8 Turkey 2.34
9 Brazil 2.32
10 Denmark 2.28
11 United States 2.10
12 Ireland 2.00
13 Argentina 1.92
14 Poland 1.77
15 Croatia 1.52
16 United Kingdom 1.43
17 New Zealand 1.41
18 Canada 1.35
19 Australia 1.28
20 Bulgaria 1.13

Also thought id quote this because i feel it goes great with what i shared as well. =)

[what?]

Nice pictures Sarah, hope you had an amazing time!

[Urbanmojo]

The population count of China far exceeds that of the USA and Europe combined so going by numbers it seems logical that there may well be more cheaters / abusers. I believe you should look closer to your own borders as to where many cheats are made and by no means never used (joke), gotta blame someone eh

[daw593server]

Originally posted by marktkm:

Your pictures make it look like you were held at gunpoint and forced to look at tourist attractions the entire trip.

(Or you just had to keep flagging down your friends who kept wandering off.)

XD

Hi marktkm,

Actually the pose is a bit of an inside joke which started many years ago on another getaway trip. I am not a tall individual and the pose and camera angle was originally used to mask the fact that I am the height that I am. I had not made the connection between SCUMs surrender pose until I read your message and I can assure you that it is a simple coincidence!

We were never part of tour groups while in China and found our own way around the country, usually making plans at the last minute to visit places both on and off the beaten path. Since it is essentially the off season there it was never a problem to get rail tickets (our main form of travel in China) and pretty much all of the locations had far fewer people in them.

One thing was for sure; everyone we met in China was exceptionally kind and members of the gaming community were easy to track down through WeChat (a Chinese phone and bank account are essential if you want to visit by the way, set them up right after you arrive). We usually invited them to a meal and always had to battle over paying the bill.

To answer some of the later posts, yes, there is an issue with cheating in China, but the same issue exists pretty much everywhere around the world. The only way to understand what is really occurring in a particular country or region is to take the time to actually visit a country to chat with the individuals directly. You can not depend only on what you read in forums or read in online game chat; direct knowledge gained from one-to-one conversations will provide far more reliable information.

As Deathwhisper indicated, the point of this post is to communicate what we heard and saw while we were there: It is not accurate nor fair to paint all Chinese gamers as cheaters. After meeting roughly 50 Chinese players over nearly six weeks I can assure you that they are just as frustrated as anyone else in the world. Perhaps more frustrated.

Sure, this is a small sample of the gaming community and there are exceptions, but it is wrong to make blanket statements about an entire country. That is all I present here and I hope that the conversation continues in a constructive manner.

Sarah