Vaulting and opening doors only..

[PabloSpacebar]

Do you think that if instead of hordes, devs introduced puppets opening doors and vaulting windows only would add much more to difficulty and tactical approach?

[Deathwhisper]

Hello :),

Quite frankly, no. In the old system, puppets were almost 100% predictable. They neither posed a serious danger nor did one need to worry about them in any way. This is significantly different with the horde system. Puppets are still a bit "stupid" and you can mislead them or otherwise misdirect them, but they are significantly more dangerous and, above all, no longer very predictable, which requires attention.

Accordingly, for me the conclusion is that they are very good as they are now. Of course there are still tweaks that are necessary, but the general situation when you willingly put yourself in danger is no longer an idle "looter" but rather caution and attentiveness with a conscience goal has become necessary.

[serilium]

puppets are still 100% predictable at least i can predict how they will act to my character, but now instead of being interesting up to a point, they have become boring and even more dull than before, this wanna horde thing has ruined them and that is saying a lot, puppets where always suppose to be low level threat, one that is always there but easy to handle if you choose to, i understand that adding a real threat to scum wasn`t going to be easy, but what they have done with the puppets is a solution that works and now they won`t go back, as for npc`s that everyone keeps asking for don`t expect that to work how you want, they ruined the puppets they won`t get npc`s right either, and you was warned this would happen.

[Splina]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Hello :),

Quite frankly, no. In the old system, puppets were almost 100% predictable. They neither posed a serious danger nor did one need to worry about them in any way. This is significantly different with the horde system. Puppets are still a bit "stupid" and you can mislead them or otherwise misdirect them, but they are significantly more dangerous and, above all, no longer very predictable, which requires attention.

Accordingly, for me the conclusion is that they are very good as they are now. Of course there are still tweaks that are necessary, but the general situation when you willingly put yourself in danger is no longer an idle "looter" but rather caution and attentiveness with a conscience goal has become necessary.

how are THEY different now??

from what i know nothing is changed in their AI, animations, "arsenal" and behavior
except the ability to bash down doors and jump on windows

all what is changed is their spawn

and no, it's not difficult in the true manner...is difficult in gamey very annoying style
meaning quantity over quality...so ofc at some point that quantity becomes "difficult"
but other than that...is just a cheap disgusting and broken way to "add difficulty" for now

there are no hordes...just extra spawns and added in a very bad way

on top of that their "senses" were nerfed..so they don't detect you that easy
how is this more difficuly if we just erase the broken spawns??

[Andi]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Hello :),

Quite frankly, no. In the old system, puppets were almost 100% predictable. They neither posed a serious danger nor did one need to worry about them in any way. This is significantly different with the horde system. Puppets are still a bit "stupid" and you can mislead them or otherwise misdirect them, but they are significantly more dangerous and, above all, no longer very predictable, which requires attention.

Accordingly, for me the conclusion is that they are very good as they are now. Of course there are still tweaks that are necessary, but the general situation when you willingly put yourself in danger is no longer an idle "looter" but rather caution and attentiveness with a conscience goal has become necessary.

*reads this and sits down in disbelief...*
.... You know, sometimes I wish I could look at the game the same way you do, with the same pink tinted view on things, coming across a lill bit naive but at the same time so much passionate, full of faith for the game and the team you love so much...
No for real! Maybe I could find it still fun as well. No offense, you know I liked you from the start and although I don't know you personally, I feel much sympathy, I really do!
But how one keeps this positivity, just fading out all the bad stuff happening in this game and actually having FUN with it is beyond me...

[Deathwhisper]

Originally posted by Splina:

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Hello :),

Quite frankly, no. In the old system, puppets were almost 100% predictable. They neither posed a serious danger nor did one need to worry about them in any way. This is significantly different with the horde system. Puppets are still a bit "stupid" and you can mislead them or otherwise misdirect them, but they are significantly more dangerous and, above all, no longer very predictable, which requires attention.

Accordingly, for me the conclusion is that they are very good as they are now. Of course there are still tweaks that are necessary, but the general situation when you willingly put yourself in danger is no longer an idle "looter" but rather caution and attentiveness with a conscience goal has become necessary.

how are THEY different now??

from what i know nothing is changed in their AI, animations, "arsenal" and behavior
except the ability to bash down doors and jump on windows

all what is changed is their spawn

and no, it's not difficult in the true manner...is difficult in gamey very annoying style
meaning quantity over quality...so ofc at some point that quantity becomes "difficult"
but other than that...is just a cheap disgusting and broken way to "add difficulty" for now

there are no hordes...just extra spawns and added in a very bad way

on top of that their "senses" were nerfed..so they don't detect you that easy
how is this more difficuly if we just erase the broken spawns??

Different experiences are reflected here. I saw both "blind" puppets and puppets that were able to see me very far away and rushed towards me quite purposefully.

In terms of the overall impression, it doesn't give me the impression of being "damaged" and, depending on the situation, it can be dangerous even with individual puppets. It comes down to many different moments when I had to handle the puppets. Some easy, some not so easy, others forced me to escape, etc.

And yes, the fact that the puppets no longer appear exactly where they always appeared before makes it less linear and predictable, which means you generally have to be careful when you go into endangered areas. Samobor was my first target, and still is whenever I create a new character. Unfortunately, my current one was stuck in Samobor for a long time and almost every shot could have alerted the puppets again, etc

There are clear differences between before and after and I personally and the way I play a game come together well here and create a pleasant gaming experience for me that is neither too demanding nor too forgiving.

[Deathwhisper]

Originally posted by Andi:

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Hello :),

Quite frankly, no. In the old system, puppets were almost 100% predictable. They neither posed a serious danger nor did one need to worry about them in any way. This is significantly different with the horde system. Puppets are still a bit "stupid" and you can mislead them or otherwise misdirect them, but they are significantly more dangerous and, above all, no longer very predictable, which requires attention.

Accordingly, for me the conclusion is that they are very good as they are now. Of course there are still tweaks that are necessary, but the general situation when you willingly put yourself in danger is no longer an idle "looter" but rather caution and attentiveness with a conscience goal has become necessary.

*reads this and sits down in disbelief...*
.... You know, sometimes I wish I could look at the game the same way you do, with the same pink tinted view on things, coming across a lill bit naive but at the same time so much passionate, full of faith for the game and the team you love so much...
No for real! Maybe I could find it still fun as well. No offense, you know I liked you from the start and although I don't know you personally, I feel much sympathy, I really do!
But how one keeps this positivity, just fading out all the bad stuff happening in this game and actually having FUN with it is beyond me...

Luckily I don't see anything pink :), that would just mean a headache in the long run.

As mentioned, it is a personal perspective that I have and that harmonizes with the way I play. SCUM is not just a passion for me but a game that I like to play, where I can switch off and simply experience something different.

The hordes and how the whole thing presented itself to me was "scary" for me at first because I simply didn't have enough information at the time before it came out.
Numerous hours after the release and many that followed, I thoroughly exploited this new type of spawn, provoked it, annoyed puppets, looked at what I had to pay attention to, etc. and it resulted in a lot of different and very rarely the same moments. Yes, there are conditions that you can create so that the AI's behavior is identical because they have no other option, but these are things that tend to ruin my own enjoyment of the game.

I don't play for efficiency, but for relaxation. To experience something different and simply immerse yourself in a game.

[ObergruppenFührer]

In my opinion - it's better to decrease zombies speed and increase their count and maybe this vaulting and opening doors will look fine...
But also with fixed hordes )

[insettoinfetto]

Originally posted by ObergruppenFührer:

In my opinion - it's better to decrease zombies speed and increase their count and maybe this vaulting and opening doors will look fine...
But also with fixed hordes )

can you please change your nickname?
thank you

[marktkm]

Originally posted by PabloSpacebar:

Do you think that if instead of hordes, devs introduced puppets opening doors and vaulting windows only would add much more to difficulty and tactical approach?

I don't see how it would add more by, well, adding less. Your question could be simplified down to, "Do you like the horde?" One of the devs posted that they've got a lot of changes upcoming for it. I'm more interested in that.

[PabloSpacebar]

Originally posted by marktkm:

Originally posted by PabloSpacebar:

Do you think that if instead of hordes, devs introduced puppets opening doors and vaulting windows only would add much more to difficulty and tactical approach?

I don't see how it would add more by, well, adding less. Your question could be simplified down to, "Do you like the horde?" One of the devs posted that they've got a lot of changes upcoming for it. I'm more interested in that.

No not at all. It’s a very direct and simple question. Imagine that you never heard about the horde, that it was never announced. Now imagine adding puppet vaulting and door opening to the game. Would it be hard enough to make a difference?

[xKiCkx]

Hello there OP, while that might still be enough of a threat to the players, hordes do increase the difficulty and change how you should approach towns and certain situations.

[PabloSpacebar]

Originally posted by xKiCkx:

Hello there OP, while that might still be enough of a threat to the players, hordes do increase the difficulty and change how you should approach towns and certain situations.

Thank you for your reply. I’m waiting for the horde spawn fix to try it as it’s supposed to be 👍
If i may suggest that you also look into lowering silenced weapon sound so we are not bound to bows only. 🙌

[serilium]

Originally posted by xKiCkx:

Hello there OP, while that might still be enough of a threat to the players, hordes do increase the difficulty and change how you should approach towns and certain situations.

yes from being cautious on the approach and ready for action because i know there is a high chance of a puppet being there before 0.95, to now running full speed into houses and jumping through windows knowing there is no puppets inside anymore, since 0.95 i`ve encountered 1 puppet inside a house, i`ve entered thousands of houses 1 in a thousand chance of meeting a puppet isn`t an improvement, and this isn`t what streamers wanted either.

[Valkyrie]

Originally posted by xKiCkx:

Hello there OP, while that might still be enough of a threat to the players, hordes do increase the difficulty and change how you should approach towns and certain situations.

There used to be more of a threat before your horde system existed as ferret and most others are TRYING to tell you..
How your horde system should have worked is..

1. Keep the old spawning system, there was nothing wrong with it, except maybe turn UP the zombie count/amount.
2. Add the opening of doors and jumping of windows, this is perfect. and what people wanted. Except remove their ability to open unpowered bunker doors.
3. Add the calling of friends for help within radius, this is great too. If there is any friends that hear the call, we like that they come to help.
4. Remove this new random spawning, 90% of the time I don;t encounter a zombie unless I am in an abandon bunker. Never in a field or forest, rarely in a town or other POI. The map is a ghost town until you loot too quickly.
5. Remove the straight up spawning of 5 or so zombies for a horde after someone cleared a farm and looted too quickly. There is no zombie to hear them. (watched happen in drone many times)
6. 5-8 zombies spawning is not a horde, that was an average Quonset at the B1/2 airport, the only thing that makes your "horde" 'challenging' is that they spawn within a meter or 2 of you.
7. Speaking of clearing things and Quonsets, If I close myself in a building and cleared it of zombies, then trigger a horde... WHY do you have them spawning in my building, I can understand if the open the door, but that is not what this is.

This new horde spawning system is a half-assed, poorly implemented joke of a spawning system and is not fun or actually challenging at all. Really would have been nice if you actually listened to what people were asking for.

Like points 1, 2, 3, and wandering groups (10-50) of hordes, instead we receive a broken system with much less zombies around and missing previous content.. and when you can get them to spawn, they spawn within a meter or 2 of you, with defaults for npc server settings, and is half the time, a pre-argoed beeper giving you next to no chance to get away.

[marktkm]

Originally posted by PabloSpacebar:

Originally posted by marktkm:

I don't see how it would add more by, well, adding less. Your question could be simplified down to, "Do you like the horde?" One of the devs posted that they've got a lot of changes upcoming for it. I'm more interested in that.

No not at all. It’s a very direct and simple question. Imagine that you never heard about the horde, that it was never announced. Now imagine adding puppet vaulting and door opening to the game. Would it be hard enough to make a difference?

This would depend on play style. For people who move slowly and avoid aggro, no. For people that push through locations then try to hide in a building, yes. I'm in the former camp and have only had to change course a couple times due to the vaulting/door opening.