Lockpicking Feedback Megathread

[Pkangel]

Currently endgame loot/weapons are gated behind lockpicking. The minigame is by far too difficult (imo). I have practised it with the lockpicking board for approximately ~2 hrs on silver and golds and it seems to be intuitive skill that either a person will *get* or *not get* no matter how much practice is accumulated. No amount of training will make anyone better or worse at this minigame. Either you get it quickly or you won't EVER *get* it. As the game currently stands all end game loot is locked behind this particular minigame which means that people are de-facto locked out of the endgame no matter how hard they try which is bad game design (imo).
To anyone unfamiliar to explain the mechanics of lockpicking, the way that it currently works is that based upon what quality of lock you are picking the durability of your type of lockpick is higher or lower. For instance a police station lock is the worst quality lock/locker type hence you can pick it easily with any quality lockpick at any skill level with very little chance of breaking your lockpick if you have any intuitive understanding of the minigame without any prior knowledge. And with knowledge they are difficult to fail... Unless the minigame bugs which will be explained later.

When you encounter a silver lock the difficulty is actually turned *on* which means that your picks durability actually matters by a great factor in this instance. Your pick will break VERY quickly even using advanced picks at this stage after ~5 failed taps if you are *feathering the lock appropriately. Once you reach gold if you don't already have silver locks mastered you will fail 99% of the time so you shouldn't even attempt them as you WILL fail no matter how much you train outside of dumb *luck.
Gold locks break after 3 failed attempts at *feathering. GOOD LUCK if you don't *get* it. Which will lock you out of pick raiding , and, killboxes specifically if by some chance you either have good demolition skill for the wires minigame, or, are just very good at that minigame (which isn't likely if you aren't good/high skill at lockpicking).

So you made it this far; how does lockpicking currently work? WELL. Essentially you have a 180 degree (unless the minigame bugs) radius that you need to *feather to find the *sweet spot then find the particular degrees within said radius to unlock the lock - sounds easy right? WRONG. That particular *sweet spot is ~10 degrees on silver locks and less on gold locks. Not to mention if you fail it RESETS meaning that it's randomized to any spot within that 180 degree radius EVERY failure. So, that means if you don't get it the first time - get it the first time, because you are starting all over again with no new information/understanding. In other words either you *get* it - or not.

In conclusion the current lockpicking minigame needs a complete overhaul or a DRASTIC reduction in difficulty as a minigame. This in no way takes into consideration multiplayer elements like base raiding because those particular elements need their own unique considerations fundamentally because of the nature of PVP elements.

The bug I mentioned earlier is across all lock types. If you have a *sweet spot on the edge of the 180 degree radius the lockpicking attempt will ALWAYS fail and there is no minigame to be played for that particular attempt. The reason being is that the *sweet spot can be beyond that radius because the radius extends beyond 180 degrees at the edges of the lock meaning that it could (will) be beyond the playable area of the minigame! For instance the *start spot is at 180 degrees and by feathering you find that there isn't any sweet spot prior to that 180 degree margin then that means if you have a silver or gold lock you WILL fail no matter what you attempt! So it's a unwinnable scenario that will happen in everyone's lockpicking adventures as the minigame currently is! (0.95).
I have extensively tested this minigame bug for ~30 minutes on the lockpicking board on the lowest quality lock to see if it was a bug because I encountered it so much on higher tiered locks just in case anyone was curious so there ya go~.

To any naysayers that easily *cheat* through gold locks by reducing fps of the game and changing mouse dpi and having a high skill level, please - don't comment about you being amazing at the minigame as that doesn't address anything surrounding the mechanical issues surrounding the minigames structure in the game design. All 10 of you. This is meant to BETTER the game instead of hinder it as someone who likes the core concepts of the game instead of yes men/woman patting the devs on the back about a fundamentally discouraging minigame.

Please leave comments about your thoughts below! Do you think lockpicking should be tweaked yae - or nae? If yes why if not why. Please don't leave get gud coments or anything of the like because this should be the megathread on the topic as many have mentioned in topics and discussions here before about their dissatisfaction about the minigame!


*GLOSSARY*
(Anything with a *)
-Feathering: Tapping the lockpick on a particular point and immediately stopping if met with resistance.
-Luck: RNG of where the sweet spot is located to complete a lock successfully
-Sweet spot: The point where The lock completely turns if the lockpick is in the correct position on the radius.
-Start point: Any point within a *sweet spot where the lockpick turns to unlock the lock.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally posted by fatesdeath:

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

+1
Only I would be against the same code being used on all--if that's the case why put them on in the first place.

because the devs stated in another post when they are "playing with 4 codes"
they are over powered
i can see that being the case if they allow more than one code on a base
if people had to guess 2-3-4-5 "4 number CODE locks "
that IMO is too much even for me that would be like damn this isnt worth it at all
if they dont remove the 3 lock or bcu lock then theres those ones to help aslwell but i never liked the Bcu lock.. it was put in to apease people then instantly nerfed

but from what i been reading the no lifers will prob spend the time now usually the same no lifers cant lockpick so you are good even if they guess codes
and the "god teir" lockpickers refuse to sit in front of a door for hours will get explosives and i was never against explosive raids

So a compromise maybe.

1 per int level of squad leader
Limit the number in the flag area
Only 1 on a prefab door

I have been guessing the 3 digits pretty good lately!

1 I followed their chat and when I heard the area they live in I tried their area code---yup!

Sometimes I take longer at the gold locks than the 3 pins but that's my bad hands in rl.

[fatesdeath]

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

So a compromise maybe.

1 per int level of squad leader
Limit the number in the flag area
Only 1 on a prefab door

so i usualy run 4 int.. so
that would be four "4lock" total on the base?
all the same code? sure thats not too bad
someone i was talking to was saying allow prefab doors to be destroyed so these locks cant be op on those doors id agree IF prefab doors respawned after sometime
and had the same hp as any other player made door

devs reduced the amount of prefab doors on map in general so there wont be houses with more than 3 "4lock" in most prefabs anyways

im more thinking, someone does have explosives they break down one wall/door that would be Just past one of your 4locks
i want there to be another chance for there to be another 4lock so its not just "bypassed" by an eco raid
same code so if they guessed it its not an issue
but if they explosive raid they better make sure they have enough to get deep and not trying to eco raid, look if a base poorly made SURE, you should be able to get around things
but the point still remains to make people ethier time sink guessing codes or go get explosives

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

I have been guessing the 3 digits pretty good lately!

1 I followed their chat and when I heard the area they live in I tried their area code---yup!

i mean 3 numbers isnt that much of a problem for people
a 4 code though 9999 combos to deal with
thats why im saying one code per base

[CrankyOldMan]

so i usualy run 4 int.. so
that would be four "4lock" total on the base?
all the same code? sure thats not too bad

The that lock means nothing it is just a place holder---oh look another 4 pin lock 1 2 3 4 Im in -----waste of server resources...

I know how dial locks work I used to have to use 3 of them to lock up my 10 speed bike 1 for the bike and 2 more for the wheels!

[fatesdeath]

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

The that lock means nothing it is just a place holder---oh look another 4 pin lock 1 2 3 4 Im in -----waste of server resources...

well no the "extra 4locks" would be as if a lockpicker went and got explosives
they used the bare minimum to break door/wall
there should be the fear that theres going to be another 4lock after that first one so they better have the explosives to get past them all or start guessing codes
if they guessed the codes GG they are determined and not just looking for an easy raid

instead of needing more explosives they would just lockpick the rest..
i rather have it so even if a lockpicker got explosives they cant just use MINIMUM effort on one spot and then its easy locks after that

the 4lock would be as useless as the bcu lock at that point
people can just bypass one door/wall and poof easy locks

[General Phanter]

I absolutely hate how hard world-locks are, I can't do it. And it sucks as I basically won't be able to visit rad zone for example. let alone loot lockers there.

Make player locks as hard as you want but just for the love of god nerf world locks.

[Siamese]

I think the picking is fine the way it is.
I do have an issue as fate’s laid out with “cheese” base building. I don’t have an issue with a mechanic that allows the blocking of doors as long as it’s a polished mechanic and not me just throwing up a wall every time. On the other hand I’ve got no desire to build open and close 30+ doors with 3 locks each on the off chance it’s too much of a time sink for people to get through it. Frankly, I’d rather just not have any loot than go through that hell every time I build or want to enter and leave. It’s just not a good game design and it doesn’t conform to anything remotely realistic. Show me the bank that has 30 doors in it…there isn’t one. In fact I’d wager there’s no secure building anywhere simply relying on sheer volume of doors as a measure.

More security options are clearly needed.


Maybe even go as far as having npc guards to tangle with and definitely more diverse and creative traps.

Whatever the future holds one thing seems very clear….lockpicking is here to stay and likely not changing much.

[Des]

Originally posted by Siamese:

I think the picking is fine the way it is.
I do have an issue as fate’s laid out with “cheese” base building. I don’t have an issue with a mechanic that allows the blocking of doors as long as it’s a polished mechanic and not me just throwing up a wall every time. On the other hand I’ve got no desire to build open and close 30+ doors with 3 locks each on the off chance it’s too much of a time sink for people to get through it. Frankly, I’d rather just not have any loot than go through that hell every time I build or want to enter and leave. It’s just not a good game design and it doesn’t conform to anything remotely realistic. Show me the bank that has 30 doors in it…there isn’t one. In fact I’d wager there’s no secure building anywhere simply relying on sheer volume of doors as a measure.

More security options are clearly needed.


Maybe even go as far as having npc guards to tangle with and definitely more diverse and creative traps.

Whatever the future holds one thing seems very clear….lockpicking is here to stay and likely not changing much.

Meh,, Honestly if you want to make a base just use one of the many VERY annoying prebuilts to raid. Unless you REALLY piss someone off they won't bother trying to raid ya. Takes way to long to get to and from and you can't use a car to mass loot with the box changes they can't do much besides spend 10 minutes to get to the first door, spend however long guessing dial lock codes, and FINALLY get inside only to get into boxes and HOPEFULLY get something good, Stuff a hiking bag or two and spend another 10 agonizing minutes not drowning, plummeting to death or losing a bag or two trying to get down the ladders or blasted by angry mechs.

[ROGUE413]

Originally posted by nyto*:

For PVE: disable the loss of fame point for unsuccesfull lockpicking of ( world lock) and there will be no problem for me.
I have the time to learn how to lock pick and i just don't want to.
It isn't really a problem as avoid those thing as maxmimum as i can. But for PVE (uranium, killbox and abondonned bunker) i just need the game to remove that supidity of losing fame point for just trying.
As i can get a lot of Screwdriver and lockpick, it isn't really a problem to lose all those items and time. Only losing fame point is a pain in the ass.
Again for PVE i don't the reason to lose fame point for lockpicking.

Hi Mate not sure but i think you can turn it off or down in the server settings that is if you are pve single player..

[Baz]

We just got raided and lost everything. The main door had 3 golds and two advanced protectors. Other golds and lock protectors were taken down also. They even picked the locks off doors that they didn't need to just for fun. I promise you, devs, this is what makes people stop playing this game. Imo, at some point a base should be relatively safe from everyone when owners are offline, not just those of us mortals that can't pick golds. jmo

Guess I need to do some lame base building like having 10 sets of doors to go through. Feeling frustrated.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by Baz:

We just got raided and lost everything. The main door had 3 golds and two advanced protectors. Other golds and lock protectors were taken down also. They even picked the locks off doors that they didn't need to just for fun. I promise you, devs, this is what makes people stop playing this game. Imo, at some point a base should be relatively safe from everyone when owners are offline, not just those of us mortals that can't pick golds. jmo

Guess I need to do some lame base building like having 10 sets of doors to go through. Feeling frustrated.

10 doors isn't enough

[Ill_Murda_U]

Originally posted by Pkangel:

Originally posted by fatesdeath:

in before the people that spent way too much time on this broken mechanic come and be like "get good"

its like a catch 22
1. you cant really "feather" without a mechanical keyboard
2 cant get good with out having the proper keyboard


its not about "getting good" the people that are "good" have made the locks useless
when a raid is actually easier for them to go through the front door than it would be to get explosives
only people that have mastered the lockpicking can actually go do the killboxes theres an issue
when 1 man can melt 10+ golds off doors in 2 mins that another issue

makes explosives pointless when people can walk through your locks with little resistance

i have asked for it for a long time and doubt it will happen
i want these current "player locks" off of base doors removed
for 4 number code locks people can still brute force but it will take time
no more easy raids by going through doors builders will feel actually secure to build normally

go hire a lockpicker to help get explosves if people are that desperate to raid

the lockpickers can still lockpick world locks so they didnt waste time on the skill
locks in kill boxes bunkers etc

but no they want the easy raids to continue and builders to get fed up building..
that is when the raiders got nobody to raid and start moaning to nerf locks

this is a old thread been brought up many times just search "lockpicking"
go read any of them and you will see my posts about this
i dont wanna have to re type this old argument out for the 20th time

I mentioned PvP considerations specifically because they should be considered completely differently from the core mechanics of the game.

PvE elements are inherently differing from PvP elements in online gaming - and the ones that don't consider them differently and interweave the two without deep consideration are massively unbalanced.

When it comes to the topic it's old in the sense that others have discussed it being broken but not making a in depth topic surrounding the ~why~ which I have done here in this post, giving baseline details for the cMods and Devs to consider in depth that could lead to the outcome of increasing the playerbase and health of the game over a extended period of time (I (we all devs included(I hope)) and the community) for everyone to grapple with in a poignant way. Especially considering the publisher which I have intricate familiarity with.

Unfortunately, the developers are absolutely resistant to advice and unfortunately have no idea how to fix the system. I wrote posts on this topic on Steam years ago when the lock picking system was first integrated into the game.

Many of my suggestions back then were implemented more or less sloppily. For me, the system simply makes no sense in building a base. There's a reason why no other survival game has adopted this mechanic. Imagine raiding a base in Rust would be so easy.